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Todd, answers to your specific questions.

December 29, 2019 01:59PM avatar
ToddB64:
Monte......If you don't mind, I would appreciate answers to my questions regarding your comments I colored brown and I also included the paragraph numbers of your above reply for reference.

Re paragraph #1: In your first paragraph, you are of course speaking of the settings you ALWAYS use on a Bandido II MicroMAX in the Discriminate mode.... That is correct... In the Discriminate mode I always leave the Disc. level at the absolute minimum setting.

The Tesoro Compadre has Extended Discrimination 180, also, when the dial knob is turned to the far-left of the arc, just before clicking OFF, the faceplate says it is set in ALL METAL . OK, that's clear enough. However, the Tesoro Bandido II µMAX has ED120, also, it has a toggle switch for ALL METAL at the center position.
ED-180 and ED-120: These are terms used by Tesoro to describe a Disc. range that ACCEPTS the upper 180° of the sine wave that would include iron, on the left side at the '180' mark, to higher conductive silver, on the right side at the '0' mark.. The ED-120 Discrimination is "Expanded" or "Extended' from a former typical Disc. setting of roughly 90° to 100° so that it ACCEPTS targets from the 120° mark, to the left of center, all the way up to include high-conductive silver at the '0' mark on the right side. Therefore, the lower-conductive targets from 120 to 180 would include the very low-conductive non-ferrous targets like small thin gold jewelry, small foil, etc. near the '120' setting and continuing into the ferrous range of metal targets toward the left-side of the scale down to the '180' mark.

So, for both models, the Discriminate control is simple an adjustment to set the minimum Acceptance level in the motion-based Discriminate mode. The so-called label that says: 'All Metal' on the Compadre is simply suggesting that in it's Discriminate mode it can accept all metal targets to include ferrous and Non-Ferrous.


Now, my questions are: If the B2µMAX's DISC LEVEL dial is set to "MIN" , (a) is the detector actually operating in ALL METAL and If so, (b) does that dial position cause the machine to operate the same as it would when the toggle switch is set in the ALL METAL MODE center position and (c) if not, which setting would give the most productive "circuit-operation" for gold and silver jewelry hunting, i.e. ALL MEAL MODE or DISC LEVEL MIN ??? Maybe some tough, but IMHO important questions to be answered.
a.. NO .. The Compadre is a 1-Mode detector. ONLY in a silent-search, motion-based Discriminate mode. It doesn't have a 'true' Threshold-based All Metal mode and can ONLY accept all metals, to include ferrous objects and other lower-conductive targets, when the variable Disc. control is adjusted to the minimum All Metal accept setting.

The Bandido II µMAX is a 2-Mode detector. It has both a true, Threshold-based All Metal mode when the mode selector toggle is in All Metal (which allows the user to adjust a proper Threshold hum and manually Ground Balance the detector), or it has a motion-based Discriminate mode when toggled to Disc. That takes it out of the All Metal function and into the Disc. mode, and the MINimum Disc. level only adjusts down to about the 120° mark so it is mainly rejecting most iron and some other lower-conductive targets, but is Accepting most-of the non-ferrous targets on up to high-conductors.


b.. NO. The Discriminate level is ONLY functional in the toggle-selected motion-based Disc. mode. The center All Metal mode position is just that. A separate, non-discriminating All Metal mode.


c.. The question isn't tough. It's simple. If you want to hunt a site and listen to the ground signal based on the All Metal mode's Threshold 'hum' and GB setting, and you want to get a target response from ALL metals, to include all ferrous and non-ferrous targets, then hunt in the All Metal mode. If you do not want to listen to the ground signal or most iron debris, then use the silent-search Disc. mode with a minimum Disc. setting to be most reactive to any detectable target you sweep over.


ToddB64:
Paragraph #3: ToddB64:
For hunting Gold and Silver jewelry in the All Metal mode, how would you set up the Bandido II MicroMAX controls?... The same as I would above, but if I intentionally want to search in a Threshold-based All Metal mode, then I would adjust the GB to be as close to 'spot-on' as possible.


I think I know the answer to this, but when the toggle switch of the B2µMAX is in the ALL METAL MODE center position, is that when it's in the "Threshold-based" All Metal mode ?

YES. It's quite simple. Just 2-Modes: Disc. which is a silent-search, motion-based Discriminate mode, and All Metal, which is a true All Metal mode where the operator can adjust for a 'proper' sight audio Hum with the Threshold control and then manually Ground Balance the detector for peak performance.


ToddB64:
Paragraph #8: I ALWAYS leave the Disc. at the minimum setting to allow me to hear the best audio target response, then I can quickly Pinpoint the target, recover it, sweep the spot to double-check and make sure there are no other targets, then get back to searching for more. Never, and I mean NEVER, do I spend any time tinkering with the variable Disc. control, and for a few very good
reasons:


With reference to your statement colored brown in the above Paragraph #8, am I correct in assuming that's because at the MIN setting of the silent search DISC LEVEL, you hear the best audio target response not clouded over or masked by ground mineral noise ?

It is because with the Bandido II µMAX, the MINIMUM Disc. setting is for a full ED-120 range of acceptance which will let me hear most of the smaller, lower-conductive non-ferrous targets, such as small, thin gold chains and other low-conductors. If I increase the Discriminate level from the Minimum setting, I will start rejecting desirable non-ferrous targets. Also, as the Discrimination level is increased, there can be more good-target masking if it is located close to a piece of offending trash, especially if that trash has been rejected.


ToddB64:
Paragraph #9: 1.. When 'thumbing' the Disc. control while sweeping the search coil, you are not going to get a proper or clean and clear audio response compared to adjusting , stopping, and then sweeping the coil. If adjusting while sweeping the coil you are feeding in both ground and target information, and during the sweep that can have an effect on the signal received, processed and audio quality.

With reference to your statement colored brown in the above Paragraph #9, just to confirm, are you saying that when operating the B2µMAX in DISC LEVEL mode, that even though the machine is in silent search, meaning there is no Threshold "hum", there is still ground mineral noise mixed-in with any target signals, and both of these sounds are being electronically fed to the detectorists ears ?

Ground is 'detectable' because Ground can, and will, produce a signal or disruption of the EMF.

It can disrupt the Electromagnetic Field and cause a signal, positive or negative, based on the detector setting, specifically the Ground Balance setting. Ground Balance has also been called Ground Exclusion Balance, Ground Adjust, Ground Cancel, Ground Neutralizing Circuitry and other terms. When a detector is properly adjusted, you use the Ground adjustment control to Balance the detector so as to Cancel-Out the effects of the Ground Signal. Generally, this is more easily heard in a Threshold-based All Metal mode.

When a search coil is swept over the ground in search of a desired target, it is also dealing with signals from the mineralized ground, perhaps from a low-conductive salt water beach, and also from unwanted trash. You can adjust the Disc. mode to ignore or cancel out or reject the signals from nails or foil or other junk, and you can adjust the Ground Balance to ignore, cancel or reject the signal from the Ground.

Now, if you Discriminate nails and small foil, then NO, the detectorist will not hear them. If the Ground Mineral signal has been adjusted for via the Ground Balance, then generally NO, you won't hear it, especially when in a silent-search mode.

However, what you WILL hear is whatever signal is left after the detector's circuitry has filtered out the 'noise' from rejected targets as well as rejected (balanced out) ground. You will hear a signal from the metal target, or perhaps a blended signal from more than one target in the search field, such as a nail close to a coin, or two coins of different sizes and metal alloy make-up 'blending' to produce a different audio tone or response.

Also, a buried coin at let's say 7" might not sound as strong or as clear as if it was simply swept passed the coil at that same distance in an 'air test.' Why would a buried coin not sound as good or as strong and a samples waved in the air? because when located in the ground the search coil is moving and that means it is going to have to deal with the Ground signal and Target signal, then process out the Ground Signal to pass long the remaining Target Signal. Combined, that is most likely to cause a loss of detection depth as well.


ToddB64:In conclusion, thanks for your advice on "adjusting , stopping, and then sweeping the coil", as apposed to and the pitfalls of thumbing the dial after getting a hit to see where the signal fades out and then deciding whether to dig or not.We simple need to decide what we do and don't want to recover. If you don't want to find foil, use a gum wrapper and a few samples of foil, different sizes and shape, and set the Disc. and go hunt. Don't even think about the Discriminate control because you already decided you didn't want aluminum and rejected it. But think of all the good targets that would also be rejected at that setting. If you don't mind missing them, use a high Disc. setting and go have fun.

If you're like me, I want to find all the good stuff I can, and if it means accepting and recovering some trash in order to get more gold jewelry or other desired lower conductive targets, then I'm just fine hunting with a lower Disc. level that I'm comfortable with.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detectors: Vanquish 540; CoRe, Relic, Impact & Simplex +; Bandido II µMAX & Silver Sabre µMAX; ORX
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Subject Author Views Posted

An hour and a silver ring Attachments

Dan'o 291 December 10, 2019 10:12AM

Re: An hour and a silver ring

OregonGregg 126 December 14, 2019 07:16AM

Re: An hour and a silver ring

Kickindirt 116 December 13, 2019 06:29PM

Getting out in December and popping some silver is great.thumbs up

Monte 133 December 12, 2019 09:13AM

Using a good Tesoro for finding Gold & Silver Jewelry: My approach.

Monte 133 December 28, 2019 07:36AM

Todd, answers to your specific questions.

Monte 114 December 29, 2019 01:59PM

sad smiley

GeoW 104 December 28, 2019 08:51AM

Never been better said!

GeoW 96 December 28, 2019 09:04AM

Re: Never been better said!

jmaryt 93 December 28, 2019 08:42PM

Re: Getting out in December and popping some silver is great.thumbs up

Dan'o 129 December 12, 2019 10:17AM

I understand. The CleanSweep kind of limits depth on its own.

Monte 136 December 13, 2019 05:53AM

Clean Sweep depth decrease but area of detection greatly increased.

GeoW 122 December 14, 2019 12:28PM

thumbs up Yes, indeed. We had a couple of local guys do that, ...

Monte 117 December 15, 2019 12:53AM

Re: thumbs up Yes, indeed. We had a couple of local guys do that, ...

Dan'o 117 December 15, 2019 01:56PM

Re: thumbs up Yes, indeed. We had a couple of local guys do that, ...

D&P-OR 126 December 26, 2019 08:41AM

Anything we can do to "learn more" is a good thing.thumbs up N/T

Monte 108 December 15, 2019 04:01PM

Re: An hour and a silver ring

UtahRich 144 December 10, 2019 07:43PM



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