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ToddB64, some quick replies that might be helpful.

September 28, 2020 11:05AM avatar
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ToddB64:
Hi All ! smiling smiley

Something I've been pondering for some time is described with the numbered questions down below, but first I'll reiterate the Ground Balancing instructions from the Bandido2µMax manual pages #8 and #9 for everyone's reference and I have only included the significant instructions for brevity in this post.

GROUND and Ground Balancing (On Manual Page #8 and #9):

NOTE: The GROUND control does affect both operating modes but should be adjusted in the All Metal Mode.

NOTE: No matter where you will be searching, or whether you will be operating in the All Metal Mode or Discriminate Mode, make sure the detector is properly Ground Balanced in the All Metal Mode with Auto Tune Mode first.
Start with these control settings.

All Tesoro models with manual GB controls, either the earlier Bandido versions and others that used a 10-turn 'pot' (short for the variable potentiometer control) or the newer 3¾-turn 'pot' serve the same purpose, to allow the operator to adjust for a functional Ground Balance setting. The earlier 10-turn type had a hard 'stop' at either end, and the newer and smaller-size 3¾-turn doesn't have a hard 'stop' position, just a 'resistance' or 'drag' felt at either end.

The important things to know is that the GB 'pot' should be adjusted for a proper or functional GB setting as described because:

A.. It is functional for BOTH the Threshold-based All Metal mode and the Silent-Search Discriminate mode.

B.. It should have a functional GB for any type of site you plan to search for peak performance and eliminate falsing.


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ToddB64:
Question #1..First I'll say that for me my Bandido2µMax has very subtle felt drag, but it is detectable if I concentrate, however, I'm wondering how important it is to stop at the exact spot when drag is felt during CCW rotation, before reversing to CW direction.

On the 3¾-turn 'pot' I find it easy to feel the 'drag' or 'resistance' and it is best to turn the control gently to make it easier to sense. If the control knob is turned firmly or aggressively, it might be more difficult to feel the 'drag.' Also, as I've aged and lost more dexterity or feel as my fingers and hands have numbed, it can be a little more difficult to sense the resistance at the end of the turn, but not all that bad.

It is important to 'stop' when you get to the end of the rotation because continued knob-turning accomplishes nothing. It is at the end of the adjustment range so you might as well 'stop.'


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ToddB64:
Based on the above paragraph under sub-title "GROUND (On manual page #8):" and particularly the last sentence at the bottom, am I correct to conclude that once the "drag" is felt going CCW, it really doesn't matter if you happen to inadvertently over-turn the dial past the just-felt "drag" position before reversing to CW direction for 2 complete turns and stopping at an approximate mid-position, or for that matter, is it important at all how far you turn the dial after "drag" is first felt before stopping and reversing to CW direction ?

No, it doesn't really matter if you happen to over-turn the knob. Once you have reached the 'drag' resistance you just stop because continued adjustment accomplishes nothing. But let me state this about their GB instructions in the Owner Manual. You do NOT have to follow all those steps every time you turn your detector on when you reach any new site to hunt. If you have no clue where the GB control was last adjusted and you are a new user and the Bandido II µMAX was just removed from the box for the first time, you might want to follow those instructions just to get started, for the first time, and adjust to one end or the other and then back off the other direction a little.

When you turn the Bandido II µMAX 'Off, it is going to turn back 'On' with all the settings for Threshold, Discrimination and Ground Balance just where you left them ... unless those knobs get bumped or intentionally moved. A lot of the 'local' ground is going to have a same or very close ground mineral make-up so it might not need any GB adjustment, or it might only require a small amount of adjustment of the Ground Adjust knob. Often less than ¼-turn so it takes a second or two to fine-tune the GB setting. No need to turn that blasted 'pot' back-and-forth from end-to-end all the time. It is a simple detector design and there's no need to over-think the design or settings or individual controls used.


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ToddB64:
Additional related questions are listed below, by sub-numbers.
My main question in this list is #1.1.

#1.1..Is there a way to increase the dial "drag" to make it easier to feel and detect ?

No. Just make the control adjustments slowly and you'll more easily feel the 'drag' or resistance of that 3¾-turn 'pot.'


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ToddB64:
#1.2..Is the drag caused by something inside the dial itself that is NOT replaceable by the consumer ?

Yes, it is just the internal design and not fixable. You could replace the 'pot' with a different one that has a hard 'stop' at either end, but there's no real need to. Also, many other 'pots' that might work and have a solid end-stop would have to be of the same impedance range and they are also a little larger-size. Thus, they wouldn't easily fit that available space inside the control housing. That's why when Jack made the microMAX housing design change, he had to use much smaller-size components so he went from the bigger-size 10-turn to the smaller 3¾-turn part.


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ToddB64:
#1.3..Or is the dial connected to another mechanism, inside the control box, that causes the drag ?

No other 'mechanism' is involved. It is simply the internal design of that 'pot.'


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ToddB64:
#1.4..Or perhaps is there a rubber O-ring, that's part of the dial assembly, that a consumer could rather easily replace ?

No, there is no rubber 'O' ring used or to be replaced. It is just an internal design of that small 'pot' and it is totally functional just the way it is.


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ToddB64:
#1.5..Or if necessary, is it possible to purchase a new replacement dial in hopes of it having more "drag", or another mechanism inside the control box, either of which a consumer with the tools and ability could replace ?

Basically, No. It is a smaller-size space and calls for a smaller-size 'pot' to provide the adjustment needed to make it work. Unfortunately, most of those are going to have the 'resistance' end-stop rather than a hard end-stop.

You just have to live with it. Manual GB is something that is easy-to-do, and often requires little if any change from site-to-site in most 'local' areas. And, as I stated, there is no reason, at all, to mess with the GB 'pot' every time you want to use it. Just turn the detector 'On', toggle to All Metal with the coil 6" off the ground and lower the coil toward the ground. The Threshold audio will stay the same so you're good-to-go.

If you get an increase (positive) as the coil is lowered toward the ground, or a decrease (negative) response as the coil approached the ground. it will take 1 to 5 seconds to quickly make a subtle adjustment to the control to establish a 'proper' or 'functional' GB and then get busy detecting. Seldom will the GB control have to be turned more than ¼ to ½ a turn from where it was last used. Just a very slight change is usually needed, so there's no need to tinker with the end-to-end adjustment business all the time.

I've been using a Bandido II µMAX since they were introduced in October of '97, almost 23 years ago, and the ONLY time I make an end-to-end adjustment where I might encounter any 'drag' is when I'm demonstrating one to a new user, or in my seminars when I adjust the GB to the extremes to demonstrate the problems an errant GB can cause.

For those who like the Tesoro detector performance, like I do, but they want to not have to fuss with the GB setting all the time or they have difficulty learning it, I suggest they acquire a Silver Sabre µMAX instead. That way, with a one-time functional GB setting of the internal GB trimmer, they can just turn the detector 'On' and get busy detecting and not have to worry about the GB. I use my Silver Sabre µMAX a bit more than my Bandido IIµMAX in a year's time because it does everything I need it to, does it just fine, and I don't have to mess with it.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2020 09:01AM by Monte.
Subject Author Views Posted

GB'ing BandidoIIµMax and Clock Position of Dial Indicator when "drag" is felt.

ToddB64 247 September 27, 2020 08:01PM

I wouldn't worry about the friction drag on the ground balance control....

Hombre 202 October 10, 2020 10:59PM

Re: I wouldn't worry about the friction drag on the ground balance control....

ToddB64 152 October 12, 2020 04:55PM

ToddB64, some quick replies that might be helpful.

Monte 227 September 28, 2020 11:05AM

Re: ToddB64, some quick replies that might be helpful.

ToddB64 148 October 28, 2020 05:03PM

ToddB64, age and tiredness maybe? Or a simple typo.

Monte 129 October 29, 2020 09:23AM

Re: ToddB64, age and tiredness maybe? Or a simple typo.

ToddB64 127 October 29, 2020 11:16AM

POT references -

UtahRich 146 October 28, 2020 11:49PM

Re: POT references -

ToddB64 127 October 29, 2020 01:10AM

Re: ToddB64, some quick replies that might be helpful.

ToddB64 140 September 28, 2020 01:30PM

Re: ToddB64, some quick replies that might be helpful.

GeoW 136 September 28, 2020 09:19PM

Re: ToddB64, some quick replies that might be helpful.

ToddB64 135 October 12, 2020 06:53PM

Re: GB'ing BandidoIIµMax and Clock Position of Dial Indicator when "drag" is felt.

SvenS 149 September 28, 2020 04:40AM

Re: GB'ing BandidoIIµMax and Clock Position of Dial Indicator when "drag" is felt.

ToddB64 128 October 12, 2020 05:33PM



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