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I guess you could say "it is what it is" but I'll comment on the two videos you posted.

August 25, 2020 07:12PM avatar
My first thought about the coming Apex is that a lot of consumers out there are excited about it because it features Simultaneous Multi Frequency and, to a lot of people who don't understand, there are going to be favorable things and unfavorable things about SMF operation. Part of it will be determined by the frequencies they choose to use when they designed the detector. Some detectors, for some applications, will work just fine in that multi frequency function. But they are not always going to be the best for every application, nor will they always outperform certain single frequency operation.

Quite a few avid detectorists figured that out early on with their Equinox 800 finding that some selected single frequencies provide better performance in some ground conditions, or perhaps in locations with mixed-metal trash, or for use when searching for particular conductivity range targets.

I know the Teknetics T2 series well having used them since 2006.. I am not fond of the 11" BiAxial coil, but that's because I favor smaller size coils to handle dense trash and brush environments. I am very familiar with the T2 performance level based on the circuitry design, and how the different tone mode selections function. And I'm also familiar with how well the circuitry handles discriminated or undesired targets with regard to response and Recovery.

I could see where the T2 he used struggled at times but I was not sure of the settings used. But one thing of note is that the T2 operates at about 13 kHz, and that's right they're in the middle of my favorite frequency range which is 10 kHz to 15 kHz. I noticed when he switched the Apex frequency to 15 kHz that, to me, it sounded like better responses he was getting then in MF.

I like the T2, but it did not always outperform the Apex, and I'd want to be certain they were using comparable settings. Then we also have to consider the overall circuitry design and the engineers approach with the concepts they had in mind. For example, they had included that iron audio response on the AT series as well as the Ace series, and having used all three of the AT models as well as the Ace 400, I found that Garrett iron audio to be very annoying. Even with those upper-end models and using a smaller size search coil at a very iron littered Ghost Town, activating the iron audio made the detectors work worse to try and handle nearby iron targets and they would not recover fast enough to respond to desired targets nearby.

Response and Recovery is a very interesting topic of discussion I get into with people, and its best handled or explained in face-to-face applications with detectors in-hand. For example, again, I go to the T2 which has a very fast response and recovery time ... IF all of the targets are all of a non-ferrous and higher conductive conductivity. When the challenge involves handling a nearby ferrous target and trying to recover for the nearby non-ferrous Target, the T2 which appears to be a brilliant performer struggles. That's one reason why I parted with both of mine five-and-a-half years ago when I got a better performing detector in hand. Not for all types of hunting, but for dealing with very iron littered sites.

This brings me to the Apex and the fact that it uses an iron audio circuitry that can be annoying, and when I get my hand in hand and next week, I'll evaluate that issue first thing. It does have iron audio volume, which is good to make it not so loud, the problem is it's not a good smooth operating iron classification circuitry in the other Garrett models, so I have reservations about the Apex performance.

A couple of other things with regard to the testing that was done in those videos. First, is the fact that the targets were all freshly buried and we know that can cause some performance difference is due to the ground disturbance. Yes, since detectors were compared side-by-side it should make it a fair comparison, but if it doesn't I haven't had the detector in hand to know the limits of an allowable sweep speed, such as how fast or how slow the search coil can be present some different performance-based on undisturbed a Jason ground.

A second consideration is the fact they operate and provide reliable performance. In some cases we know that using a slow and methodical sweep speed might help isolate a good target close to an iron Target. What I observed was continue brisker sweeps back and forth over the sample targets and I would like to have seen him demonstrate the Apex at both a slower sweep as well as a moderate sweep speed and faster sweep speed

The third consideration is really one of the biggest points of interest I have with regard to the Apex, just as I did the Simplex Plus, or a couple of years ago the folks had about the Equinox 800. They were introduced with bigger size search coils and it took a while for a smaller coil to be made for the Minelab Equinox. Finally they came out with a round 6" Double-D coil.

I got my first simplex the day before Thanksgiving but we didn't have an optional coil until just this last month. One of them is around 8½" in diameter Double-D coil, but I picked the skinnier of the two going with the 5X9½ Double-D coil. To me, these two are both a midsize coil rather than a smaller coil.

Now Garrett brings us the new Apex but with only one search coil. It's a 6X11 Double-D which still makes it a bigger size, 11" search coil. And every detector design, based upon the internal windings of the coil and how they develop the circuitry, is going to exhibit some amount of response after the side of the coil. Some people think the detection field is only directly below the search coil but that's not the case. Many detectors become very sensitive off to the side such as working near a chain link fence, metal pipe, etc.

Any detector that has a mid-size to larger-size search coil is going to be at its best when working a more open area, such as a beach or plowed field or the middle of a big grassy park, where they are less likely to have a nearby offending piece of metal. So what I saw in the videos was what I expected to see, at least for now

How well the new Apex will work when used in an iron infested site, and I mean truly iron infested, we won't know until Garrett gets around to introducing a decent, smaller size coil. It could be a 4 1/2 to 6 in diameter round coil and I believe we would then see the Apex work a bit better on the testing in the videos.

One more thing I observed was the fact that that one big hunk of iron blob was just that, a big hunk of iron and that kind of trash is going to be a problem for most detectors and cause good–target masking.

The first thing I will do when I get my Apex put together, is grab my Nail Board Performance Test, and Indianhead penny, and see how the Apex and standard coil we'll handle that challenge and go up against other detectors with a comparable size search coil.

There are many detectors out there that will fail to get more than two or three hits out of a possible eight using their standard coil, a mid-size coil, and some don't do well even with a small coil of about 5" in diameter. It is a tough test, but it is a fair and very consistent test. I encountered an Indian Head encircled by for iron nails on Memorial Day Weekend of '94, and for 26 years now the Nail Board Test has proven itself to set apart detectors or detector and coil combinations, that do or don't work well in Iron Nails.

Above all I'm hoping that the new Apex will be as comfortable as it appears. I'm hoping that, with a standard coil, it will perform up to par to compete with the majority of the detectors available today for conventional Urban coin hunting applications.

I'm hoping that the audio tones, the response and recovery time, and iron audio circuitry will work well enough to satisfy most consumers, that the target ID will be functional for most applications, and that the feature-set is going to be well received

And my biggest hope, for me and for many people, is that the folks at Garrett metal detectors will soon get a smaller coil available for us to help us better handle dense trash, dense brush and working around building Rubble.

Interesting videos, but some of the test comparisons I don't feel were that good and part of that is due to the bigger size of that new coil they came up with for the Apex. It's still a bigger size coil and you can't have big hunks of iron close to desired targets and expect the detector to work okay. When he worked in on the targets with the toe or heel of the coil over the coin we got a good signal, but trying to get a good signal on the coin when part of that bigger coil is over or too close to some offending iron, is asking a lot of any detector

Just some thoughts,

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Daily Use: Apex -- Vanquish 540 -- Racer 2 & Simplex + -- Bandido II µMAX & Silver Sabre µMAX -- MX-7
Specialty Use: CoRe -- Relic -- XLT
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive -- ProPointer AT .. Headphones: 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' -- MS-3 Z-Lynk -- ML-80 -- N/M Green Edition
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/25/2020 10:36PM by Monte.
Subject Author Views Posted

Hope this isn't what the production Apex is like

SvenS 106 August 25, 2020 04:20PM

Both videos were removed by poster

SvenS 63 August 25, 2020 07:51PM

Both videos were removed by poster - Penalty Box

UtahRich 57 August 25, 2020 08:35PM

im late to the party! Video has been removed by Uploader. N/T

UtahRich 49 August 25, 2020 07:49PM

I guess you could say "it is what it is" but I'll comment on the two videos you posted.

Monte 64 August 25, 2020 07:12PM

Re: Hope this isn't what the production Apex is like

Timbertodd 52 August 25, 2020 07:05PM

Re: Hope this isn't what the production Apex is like

Timbertodd 57 August 25, 2020 06:43PM

Up to this point, Minelab SMF's have dominated the beaches

UtahRich 56 August 25, 2020 08:33PM

Re: Hope this isn't what the production Apex is like

SvenS 61 August 25, 2020 04:21PM

Re: Hope this isn't what the production Apex is like

WM6 52 August 25, 2020 07:20PM



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