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Todd, my Ripper & Raider detection depths observations.

August 06, 2021 02:34PM avatar
Quote
Timbertodd
Monte have you noticed any considerable difference in depth of detection between the Ripper and Raider coils in your hunt environment?

If I may, let me fine-tune the question as it pertains to the type of hunting I do.

What type of detecting do I do? Whether it is urban Coin Hunting, Jewelry Hunting, occasional Beech Hunting, or my long-time favorite of Relic Hunting old and out-of-the-way locations, I am mainly searching for old Coins, Trade Tokens, Buttons, Bullets, Thimbles, Insignia and Jewelry, and any sort of interesting smaller-size artifact from an earlier era. The main thing to note here is I am after smaller-size targets. Some CW Relic Hunters are also in search of larger-size targets such as Belt Plates or might use an All Metal mode a lot to try and find firearms or other objects that are more Iron or Ferrous-type targets.

The absolute fact is that regardless of marketing pitches, 'bigger-size' search coils are better used to find 'bigger-size' targets. The smaller the coil the tighter the EMF and the bigger the coil the EMF is more open and at some point they start to lose their effectiveness / performance to smaller-size metal objects. Also, the smaller the object, such as a US Dime compared to a US Half-Dollar, the over-size coils lose performance much quicker as there is less metal in the more open EMF to disrupt it and generate a response.

So, if I rephrase your question it might read:

"Have I noticed any considerable difference in depth of detection
for smaller-size targets
between the Ripper and Raider coils in my hunt environment?
"



I also have to consider these things:

• For smaller-size targets, as described, a reasonable increase in detection depth could only be perhaps ½" to 1½".

• We also need to categorize search coils because in the past decade-or-two there has been a bad trend to sell detectors with an 'over-size' coil in the first place. It used to be a detector came with a standard coil of about 8" in diameter. Also, most of the coils used to be Concentric design and not Double-D. Some models had a 'standard' coil that was 7" to 7½", and manufacturers often offered one or two larger-size coil options.

Let's look back about thirty years ago, to 1990, and we'll stick with three manufacturers here in the USA, Compass Electronics, Garrett Electronics and White's Electronics. Compass used an 8" standard coil, offered a 12" coil and a big 16" coil. The honest marketing for them should have been the 12" for a little added coverage as well as a little extra depth for smaller-size target' hunting, and the 16" promoted for searching for larger-size targets. Garrett's three offerings were basically a 7½", 10" and 14", with the middle-size for depth and coverage and the bigger coil for deeper detection of larger-size targets. White's three were an 8" standard, a 10" and a 15", also properly assigned.

Today and in more recent years we have seen companies offer models with a 'standard' coil like the 950 or a 10' Concentric, or the big trend to things like an 11" BiAxial, 7X11 DD, 11" round DD, or some Garrett models with the 8½X11 DD standard which is the 'Raider' dimension. There have also been some goofy-shaped search coils from FTP and others, but note that most are a Double-D design, too.

Yes, SOMETIMES a DD coil can provide some advantages based on the site environment, and also based on how the detector's circuitry was designed. However, we also learned long ago that a Concentric coil of comparable size to a DD will Discriminate a little better or more consistently, the VDI read-outs can be tighter, and they can usually provide slightly better depth than the DD coil.

Bigger-size coils also have more trouble dealing with masking targets in a trashier environment so they are best employed in a more open, sparse-target environment. Because I hunt smaller-size targets I do not use larger-size coils. The largest coil I have in my entire detector outfit right now is the 8½X11 Raider coil for my Apex. That's all I need to get the slightly improved depth and to also gain a little better side-to-side sweep coverage in more open conditions.

• You also asked how the two compare in my hunt environment. Keep in mind that I was living in Oregon and used both the Ripper and Raider coils on the Apex devices in a variety of locations there as well as here in mid-west Texas. I've hunted very dense iron mineralized soil, in dirt, pea ravel and rocky-based environments, as well as the loose sandy loam. In Oregon some of the yards I worked had a GB phase rad-out of '57' to '71' but most places, and the ghost towns and CCC camps, generally read from '74' to '78' and others from '76' to '84' or so. Here in Texas my yard varies from ±'74' to ±'85'.

I have done some side-by-side comparisons on located targets with the following results:

I used MF because that's what most folks are usually going to go with. I start all my Apex units in MF but I do opt for Single-Frequency from time-to-time, mainly 10 kHz or 15 kHz depending upon the site hunted. Also, I use my 'Custom' program settings of Volume' 8', Iron Volume '2', and Sensitivity starts up at the maximum of '8' bars. On located targets before recovery, with the Apex & 'Ripper' I would then shut-down and use the other Apex & 'Raider'. Then I would lift the coils away from the ground to the point where I lost an iffy but repeatable signal. Then I'd note the difference in coil height between the two coils. So it wasn't a test using a ruler to nit-pic the depth range as in an 'air test' but just a visual observation. I would use something to try and guestimate the difference between the two elevated coil positions and get a rough measurement later.

To be honest, the result was about what I anticipated, and I compared the two detectors and coils at both a Sensitivity of '8' bars and then again at '5' bars, as if reduced to handle EMI, etc. I would note the slight differences based on the different recovered coins. On the Pennies and Dimes I detected, the overall differences, from an assortment of locations and ground make-up, was, anywhere from about ½" to ¾"-1" in favor of the Raider coil. US Quarters had a difference of maybe ½"-¾" and up to 1" to 1½". As expected, the US Nickels showed better in-ground detection depth with both coils over the other coins, and the Raider was a little 'hotter' than the Ripper on an average running from abut ¾" to 1½" to 1¾".

As I suggested, you will see a 'slight' increase in detection depth with 'some' larger-size coils, but it usually isn't anything to write home about. Many manufacturers use to suggest a percentage of depth increase for their accessory coils, such as a 12" coil would get a 20% increase over the stock 8" coil. Their bigger-size coil they suggested a 40% increase on a smaller-size coin. That sounds impressive, and if it was 20%, and if the standard coil hit a coin in the ground at 8", the 20% would get you and added 1½". But the bigger coil, at 40%, would be a 3.2" or about 3¼" increase, and that's not going to happen with a smaller-size object. With two manufacturers I used their coils and their detectors and disproved their advertising claims as the increase on a Dime or Penny was not going to average 20", and with the larger coils they offered, the tested detection depth was anywhere from the same as the mid-size bigger coil, or practically nothing in the way of an increase, or often even a reduced signal response from the smallest targets.

For me and my wants and needs, I prefer a smaller-size coil, and in more moderately littered to relatively clean areas I am fine using a mid-size coil. In my Detector Outfit the mid-size coils include my 9" X-35 for the ORX and the 5X9½ DD HF coil for the ORX, the 5X9½ DD I now keep mounted on my FORS Relic, and the 5X8 Ripper coil that stays on my primary-use Apex. I am not into the 'depth' discussions some folks get into because 95%-98% of all the god targets I find for decades now have been findable with a smaller-size, mid-size, standard size or a slightly larger size coil. Where I feel most folks benefit going to a bigger coil than normal is simply to enhance their site coverage.

In more open areas, such as a beach or plowed field, etc., that's where I'll grab the Apex w/'Raider' coil .... mainly just to get better coverage . But I also stay in control of the coil to make sure I overlap efficiently.

I like the 'Raider' and will use it this evening in the open area of my yard, and I know it might give a better response than a smaller coil on some questionable-depth targets , and right now I mainly need 'coverage' in the sparse-target locations, and will take whatever wee bit of depth increase I can get.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
I'm now located in Clyde, Texas
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detector Outfit: A selection of my favorite makes and models, with the best coils mounted for the tasks I'll take on.
Apex .. FORS CoRe .. FORS Relic .. Impact .. Inca .. Bandido II µMAX .. Silver Sabre µMAX .. MX-5
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive Pointer and AT Pro-Pointer .. Headphones: 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' .. MS-3 Z-Lynk
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

Ripper & Raider taking on deeper coins.

Monte 250 August 04, 2021 08:08AM

Other Apex and coil considerations for my wants and needs.

Monte 95 August 12, 2021 04:46AM

Re: Ripper & Raider taking on deeper coins.

Timbertodd 94 August 05, 2021 08:17PM

Todd, my Ripper & Raider detection depths observations.

Monte 115 August 06, 2021 02:34PM

Re: Todd, my Ripper & Raider detection depths observations.

Timbertodd 96 August 08, 2021 03:10PM

Depth-of-Detection comparisons gets interesting.eye rolling smiley

Monte 89 August 08, 2021 11:17PM



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