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Update on my progress ... Going to check a 'Manufacturer Glitch' today.

February 14, 2020 08:16AM avatar
A "Manufacturer Glitch?" Yes, not a specific Detector Glitch, but one within the Customer Service group with the manufacturer.

When there is an obvious detector glitch, or one which might be missed by many but someone finds it, then you want to know what is causing it, why it behaves the way it does, and most importantly can it be fixed. Long ago I would find something that just didn't seem to work right, and by "work right" I mean work in a way that seemed 'logical' or just work like I was used to having a detector perform. Early-on it wasn't such a difficult things because detectors were rather simple and straight forward in what they would do. I am referring to the early I/B or Induction/ Balance detectors which are more popularly known as T/R or Transmit / Receive principle of operation.

BFO's, or Beat-Frequency Oscillator types, were the first most popular but quickly the I/B or T/R models gained more attention due to their quicker-response and the fact you were listening to a loudness-change and not a pitch-change. Those earlier models were called Metal / Mineral Locators and soon the name started being accepted as Metal Detectors. Terminology gets confusing along the way because a Metal / Mineral Locator allowed the operator to tune it to find Non-Ferrous targets (Metal) or Ferrous targets (Mineral). targets. This was before we had manually adjustable Discrimination, and detectors worked quite well in ferrous-target littered sites.

Detectors were easy to figure out, simple to learn, and if there was a problem it was more mechanical, such as a White's I bought brand new in May of '71 that kept shorting out. Problem? A cold solder spot. It was quickly repaired at the factory. I had issues, or glitches, with other detectors early-on that were a simple fix, or when evaluating prototypes for a few manufacturers I would note a problem that was easy to resolve in the engineering department and taken care of before production of the model.

However, it seems that as we have progressed to more adjustment-featured models some design engineers, or by instruction from above, decided to eliminate some of the normal consumer complaints the companies would hear, such as falsing when a search coil is raised or lowered or swept over uneven ground with holes, furrows or depressions. What generally causes that? Not having a proper Ground Balance setting for the mineralized ground being searched, in the search mode being used.

Who should be responsible for having a 'proper' setting? The detector operator.

Who was responsible for poor performance due to NOT having a proper Ground Balance? The detector operator.

Many detector models do NOT have a true, Threshold-based All Metal mode and simply 'suggest' an All Metal search by using a motion-based Discriminate mode with close-to-zero rejection.. A lot of those detectors operate with a silent-search Discriminate mode but some do provide an audible Threshold reference audio, and, in either design, it would be to the user's benefit to use a properly-set, functional Ground Balance.

So, what approaches are used to have a GB setting that will eliminate false responses from an improper GB setting? They are these:

1.. An external Manual Ground Balance control for both an All Metal mode and a Discriminate mode.

2.. A factory Preset GB using an internal trimmer that adjusts a GB that is functional for both the All Metal and Discriminate modes.

3.. An automated (aka Ground Grab or Auto-Tracking) function to either momentarily-adjust or adjust during the coil sweep for both the All Metal and Discriminate search modes.

4.. A model that relies on a circuitry-designed GB 'compensation' the manufacturer feels might handle most conditions, and the device has an internal trimmer that is more of a coarse-tune GB adjustment, but possibly only for either the All Metal OR Discriminate function, not both..

5.. A model that relies on a circuitry-designed GB 'compensation' the manufacturer feels might handle most conditions and the device lacks any internal trimmer to correct the GB setting.

6.. A model that provides a button or toggle selected Automated GB, and might even have a Manual GB feature for the All Metal mode that functions with the threshold All Metal mode and Pinpoint feature ... but it does NOT tie in with the motion-based Discriminate mode. Instead, that GB setting is non-adjustable as the device is factory Preset in the Disc. mode.

7.. A model that has an Automated or manual GB adjustment that does carry over from the All Metal mode, at least within a determined range, to affect the motion-based Discriminate mode.

8.. A model that doesn't have a true All Metal mode, and doesn't have an external control or have any function to address Ground Balance.


Of the above, my personal preference is to have a detector that fits the 1 or 2 category for handling Ground Balance in both the conventional All Metal as well as motion Discriminate modes. Don't get me wrong, I am liking the Vanquish 540 more each time I get out hunting, but yesterday's journey afield brought a couple more questions up for me to get answers. Today I'm going to give Minelab a call here in the USA and see if I can get straightforward answers that honestly address the questions I have about what I feel is a design glitch as well as some related to Ground Balance and something else.

Customer / Consumer Service is an important part of every business so this is when I find out if Minelab takes care of this customer's needs and questions, or if I get blah answers or am shuffled around to different people who also can't help. If that's the case, then the 'Manufacturer has a Glitch.

It's 8:15 AM and I've been up and working with most of my detectors on some comparisons and adjustments since 1:45 this morning. I've learned a few things, especially with regard to the F44, ORX and 540 units. Now I'm headed out the door to try and beat the wind and storm that's coming our way.

Monte

By the way, do you know which of the above 8 categories of Ground Balance design your detectors fit in? You might be surprised.

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Daily Use: Apex -- Vanquish 540 -- Racer 2 & Simplex + -- Bandido II µMAX & Silver Sabre µMAX -- MX-7
Specialty Use: CoRe -- Relic -- XLT
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive -- ProPointer AT .. Headphones: 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' -- MS-3 Z-Lynk -- ML-80 -- N/M Green Edition
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

Out for a bit of evaluation and Coin Hunting unit adjustment.

Monte 314 February 11, 2020 06:28AM

Update on my progress ... Going to check a 'Manufacturer Glitch' today.

Monte 192 February 14, 2020 08:16AM

Who Are You! ? And what have you done with the REAL MONTE ?. N/T

UtahRich 187 February 11, 2020 03:49PM

Re: Who Are You! ? And what have you done with the REAL MONTE ?.

OregonGregg 182 February 14, 2020 07:05AM

Favorite types of Pie ?

UtahRich 172 February 14, 2020 08:47AM

Re: Out for a bit of evaluation and Coin Hunting unit adjustment.

diggindeep 200 February 11, 2020 10:25AM

Comparing thoughts about the Vanquish.thinking

Monte 216 February 13, 2020 08:14AM

Re: Comparing thoughts about the Vanquish.thinking

jmaryt 208 February 13, 2020 11:53AM

If I'm enjoying a detector and finding stuff ... that's 'FUN.' thumbs up N/T

Monte 177 February 13, 2020 12:13PM

I enjoy myself not finding stuff smiling smiley N/T

glabelle 183 February 13, 2020 12:22PM

Yes, just getting out detecting can be fun.

Monte 175 February 14, 2020 03:12AM

Re: Yes, just getting out detecting can be fun.

jmaryt 158 February 14, 2020 03:21PM

Funny you should mention that

UtahRich 170 February 13, 2020 10:55PM

Re: Funny you should mention that. Exactly Rich

Kickindirt 160 February 14, 2020 12:42AM

Re: Comparing thoughts about the Vanquish.thinking

diggindeep 185 February 13, 2020 09:37AM

Back to you, sharing our opinions and experiences.

Monte 173 February 13, 2020 01:12PM

Re: Comparing thoughts about the Vanquish.thinking

glabelle 182 February 13, 2020 12:21PM

But I used a single-freqquency detector to accomplish the same thing. N/T

Monte 166 February 13, 2020 01:16PM

The detector of choice is

UtahRich 185 February 13, 2020 11:08PM

Re: The detector of choice is

diggindeep 188 February 14, 2020 09:24AM

Re: The detector of choice is

glabelle 174 February 14, 2020 09:53AM

Passing thoughts and personal experiences from afield.

Monte 196 February 15, 2020 12:10PM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

Kickindirt 177 February 14, 2020 07:22PM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

glabelle 204 February 15, 2020 07:33AM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

Kickindirt 175 February 15, 2020 11:31AM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

glabelle 162 February 15, 2020 12:30PM

A Little Help From Your Friends . . .

UtahRich 182 February 15, 2020 04:47PM

A Little Help From Your Friends . . .but ya wasn't there to help.

OregonGregg 203 February 16, 2020 08:16AM

Hey, Rich. I wasn't that harsh, just wondering.confused smiley

Monte 161 February 16, 2020 07:34AM

Re: Hey, Rich. I wasn't that harsh, just wondering.confused smiley

glabelle 154 February 16, 2020 09:26AM

George, I put up another post to continue this discussion:

Monte 157 February 16, 2020 10:06AM

Re: A Little Help From Your Friends . . .

glabelle 167 February 15, 2020 07:56PM

Re: A Little Help From Your Friends . . .

Kickindirt 154 February 15, 2020 08:19PM

Re: A Little Help From Your Friends . . .

Remfire 157 February 15, 2020 07:33PM

You said: "I got it because it may be great for GT hunting."

Monte 199 February 15, 2020 01:04PM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

jmaryt 190 February 15, 2020 09:03AM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

OregonGregg 157 February 15, 2020 08:33AM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

jmaryt 170 February 15, 2020 09:07AM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

OregonGregg 159 February 15, 2020 05:25PM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

jmaryt 168 February 16, 2020 09:15PM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

glabelle 191 February 15, 2020 09:02AM

Re: The detector of choice is atgold??

OregonGregg 165 February 15, 2020 12:14PM

Re: Out for a bit of evaluation and Coin Hunting unit adjustment.

Kickindirt 192 February 11, 2020 08:48AM

Yes, a new 'toy' that isn't a bad pick for many uses.

Monte 209 February 13, 2020 06:14AM

Oh, the horror! eye popping smiley And some testing Attachments

glabelle 199 February 11, 2020 08:10AM

"Oh, the horror! eye popping smiley " ... Yes, 'testing' in both environments gets interesting.

Monte 172 February 12, 2020 08:53AM

Re: "Oh, the horror! eye popping smiley " ... Yes, 'testing' in both environments gets interesting.

Kickindirt 161 February 12, 2020 01:10PM

Joel, I'll get a picture up, and you can test it on the WTHO, too! N/T

Monte 185 February 13, 2020 05:27AM

Re: "Oh, the horror! eye popping smiley " ... Yes, 'testing' in both environments gets interesting.

glabelle 162 February 12, 2020 11:12AM



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