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Here is an easy answer to your two replies:

July 24, 2019 10:31AM avatar
Okay, lengthy perhaps, but still an easy answer to your questions,

Quote
jmaryt
monte! at the risk of you getting annoyed with me, i have to ask, if the 'turks" are so good at picking good stuff from dense trash sites, either urban, or ghost towns, why don't you just use the 'turks" for ALL your hunting sites?
Nope, not annoyed. One of the many words we use in this hobby is "Trash" or "Trashy" but it is not a defined term. A lot of people use it just to say they hunted a "trashy" site ... but that tells me nothing. That's just one person's loose description of working any area that is not void of annoying, unwanted targets.

Other terms we read or hear are "Quick Recovery", "Separation" and "Unmasking", but those also have little to no definition or description of what and how that individual determines how a detector is really performing unless they have some exacting descriptions of what they mean, a good set of 'test samples' that duplicate actual in-the-field encounters, and to be really useful, the end results of evaluating any detector and coil are using them against one or more (I prefer several) comparable detectors, search coils, settings, and with side-by-side comparisons.

That's why I often use extra words to try and get the message across that might better define the condition of the trashy sites I refer to. I have no doubt that a lot of people will hunt a site that is 'trashy' and, to them, and based on other sites they search that are mellower, the 'trashy' site is quite a challenge. Also, I realize that not all sites are alike in the types of challenges they might place before us. For example, I went up the road from my place and hunted a park this morning for about 30 minutes. I've never hunted it in the almost four years I have lived here. You and a dozen readers on the Forums can head out to a local city park by you and search it for 30 minutes or so, and in the end all of us would have hunted a nearby local Park.

But that doesn't mean we all found the same amount or type of good targets, nor does it mean we all hunted a place that was trash-free. We wouldn't have all encountered and recovered the same amount of trash or type of trash. Why not? Because the word "Park" is just a loose reference term that only suggests it is a local Park but a lot of information is missing, such as:

Are they watered or do they not have sprinklers?

Are they nice green grassy places that are wet and easy to make recoveries, or is the ground hard and dry which makes recovery difficult?

Are they a low, medium or high mineralization level?

Bare dirt or grassy?

Is there a tot-lot / playground? Picnic areas, and are there picnic tables?

So many things are required to better define the very common term or description of a site that is a 'Park.'

Well, the same holds true for other places we might hunt, such as a 'Homestead." I have searched a 'Homestead', many, many of them, since 1968 and while all of them still have been a long-absent dwelling site, they differ a great deal. Some have a still-standing structure or more, others have a dilapidated house or outbuilding, and some are just a barren, void-looking chunk of dirt that may or may not have any signs of a foundation.

At times I can see dump piles of rusted cans and other discarded junk, and at other locations there's no visible sign of any debris. Some have a lot of metal targets while others seem almost clean with hardly any good (non-ferrous) or bad (iron nails and other ferrous trash) about the site. At times I can put in a few hours and might only luck upon a penny or two, and the next old Homestead can keep me busy for a day or two and reward my efforts with a good selection of 'keepers.' No two Parks are the same, and no two Homesteads will be the same.

And you'll note that I often make references to hunting Ghost Towns. I have been searching Ghost Towns since May 4th of 1969, especially my all-time favorite, and they can all offer different sets of challenges in the way of debris types and amount, mineralization, etc.. But you might also note that quite often I make reference to searching old Railroad Ghost Towns, and those date from the early 1860's, and the busier the railroad activity was tends to make most of the older RR townsites be some of the worst to deal with in the way of nails and other smaller-size wire iron. Also a tough challenge due to the extra amount of other ferrous-based objects associated with trains.

Some have, what I consider, a modest amount of iron junk to handle, but over half of the old town sites, either in more challenging parts of the towns or really just about everywhere in the old site, have very high, dense and close scatterings of a very ample supply of nails, wire iron, rusty tin, and other discards that are both ferrous and non-ferrous junk. In fifty years of Ghost Town Hunting I have had the pleasure of inviting or meeting up with others who have searched urban locations or branched out to other places and felt they had hunted some "iron infested" sites.

In that past half-century of inviting them to join me in a search of some of the more challenging old townsites, I'd guess a good 75% of them were amazed at the amount of, and type of, iron discards that were there ... in abundance ... and said they had NEVER imagined a site that was so blasted full of 'trash.' They would comment that they now had an idea what I meant by a very iron-filled, challenging site. And not once has anyone told me they hunted worse-condition places. It is at sites like those that I get asked what detectors and coils do I use to best handle them because, as they often find out quickly, the outfit they brought along just did not handle the conditions well at all.

My first responses to that are simple: Don't use a detector that is usually regarded as a city-based Coin Hunting unit, and be sure to bring a smaller-size search coil. Something in the 5" or 6" diameter is usually going to work more in your favor. And as you work to select a better detector for the task, compare it with others using iron nails to get a better idea of how it handles the very common iron trash objects. Naturally, I will often pull out my Nail Board Performance Test and suggest it as an excellent starting tool to separate the better performers from the worst. Tipically I have a couple of NBPT kits along and am willing to sell them one.winking smiley

On a NBPT you can sweep the center-axis of the search coil completely across the board, going left-to-right and right-to-left along the 4 marked routes. That makes a possible 8 good hits on an Indian Head or modern Zinc Cent in the #1 spot in the center of the board. For me, I consider 6 out-of 8 to be the barely 'pass' score, but for my uses, a detector and coil combination must hit on the Penny at least 7 or 8 out-of 8 or it won't be in my serious Relic Hunting models.

Some examples of makes and models and coils that do NOT cleanly pass the NBPT to make the cut are a Fisher F75 w/5" DD, Teknetics T2 w/5" DD, Omega w/4" Concentric or 5" DD and F-44 w/4" Concentric or 5" DD. They also can't do it with the 7" Concentric. A White's MX Sport or MX-7 w/7" DD. And the list can go on ...


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jmaryt
i realize you enjoy the "variety" of using proven platforms in your hunting endeavors, however if the turks" are busting it (so to speak), and providing "better" performance over all, it would make sense to prioritize and just use the "better performing" equipment in all hunting scenarios?
There is no such thing as a 'perfect' detector or a manufacturer would make only one model for do-it-all performance.

Yes, I own a variety of detectors and that's because the models in my current detector group are my personal picks of what I like best from each of the brands I favor. I have favorites specifically for urban Coin Hunting in a variety of places, to include my non-display Tesoro's to my TID equipped White's XLT, Teknetics Omega 8000 and Fisher F-44. The latter two, especially, because I need to keep the weight down and maintain comfort to hunt longer, but they also have efficient performance in the 'average' urban littered sites associated with day-to-day Coin Hunting.

Yes, my Nokta CoRe and Nokta Relic and XP ORX units can also be used for those close-to-home hunts, but they are ... for me ... at their best when I am Relic Hunting the really terrible iron littered sites where they tend to excel in performance.


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jmaryt
hope you are feeling better!
Doing my best, but a diabetic issue messed up my day to get away to one of the gold mining era town sites we like to hunt. Maybe this coming Saturday will work out.


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jmaryt
in addendum: i ws hoping you would indicate that the f44 with the little coil on board would "match" the turks performance in the really dense trashed ghost towns.as is usually the case, ...
There is absolutely no way possible. Not the F-44 w/small coil. Not the Omega 8000 w/small coil. Not the T2 w/small coil. Not most of the popular models on the market today from Nokta / Makro competitors will match or come close to what they can do. Not in the really tough iron contaminated environments I enjoy searching.

I really like the F-44's comfortable light-weight design and keep a 7" Concentric mounted all the time. But I have both the 4" Concentric and 5" DD mounted on their own lower rods for quick, in-the-field changes, and in and around town the F-44 is a fun detector to use. In wide-open rural locations where there is very little trash, especially not much iron trash, the F-44 and Omega 8000 are enjoyable detectors to put to work. I enjoy the F-44's setting memory, Tone ID for different search modes, and depth for the coils I prefer to use.


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jmaryt
... ya gotta "pay" for performance, and although the f44 does well in urban hunting sites, it is still no match to the turks with similarly equipped sized search coils in the 'ghost towns"
You didn't form the last comment as a question or statement, so I will simply make it one:

Correct, the F44 is still no match against the Turkish CoRe, Relic and other units with their smaller-size coils in the typical "ghost towns" I like to hunt.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Regular-Use Outfit: Nokta / Makro: 4 models .. Teknetics: 1 model
Tesoro: 2 models .. White's 1 model .. XP: 1 model
A Handy Loaner Unit: Fisher: F-44
Headphones: Killer B's 'Hornet' -- Detector Pro Gray Ghost XP
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

j.t.: Sorry I overlooked your questions the end of May.

Monte 136 July 24, 2019 05:38AM

Re: j.t.: Sorry I overlooked your questions the end of May.

jmaryt 84 July 24, 2019 08:05AM

Here is an easy answer to your two replies:

Monte 91 July 24, 2019 10:31AM

Re: Here is an easy answer to your two replies:

jmaryt 83 July 24, 2019 08:49PM

Wondering about the 'Simplex and my thoughts? Go to the Nokta-Makro Forum. N/T

Monte 70 July 25, 2019 10:00AM

Re: Here is an easy answer to your two replies:

D&P-OR 73 July 24, 2019 10:50PM

Re: Here is an easy answer to your two replies:

jmaryt 124 July 24, 2019 11:07PM

Re: Here is an easy answer to your two replies:

D&P-OR 93 July 25, 2019 06:38AM

Re: Here is an easy answer to your two replies:

jmaryt 79 July 25, 2019 08:59AM

Re: j.t.: Sorry I overlooked your questions the end of May.

jmaryt 86 July 24, 2019 08:10AM



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