Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

How about XP 'ORX' Users - Target ID 'Normalization' - An even Nicer ORX Feature.smiling smiley

July 08, 2019 08:21AM avatar
Rich, as you know, I always appreciate learning more about other detectors, to include both potential strengths and weaknesses. It is often interesting to follow some manufacturers as they progress and make changes to their product line, which is sometimes an improvement and at other times a bit detrimental. I've seen that with products from XP out of France for the past decade or more, and other brands much longer ... even going back to the mid-to-late '80s.

Due to the physical packaging and the lighter-weight and improved balance of the design of the Deus, I was interested in it when I first saw the early magazine and literature ads, then as soon as a dealer friend had one on-hand, I wanted to check it out. It fit some of my interests, such as weight and balance and it got good check-marks for those. But I checked the 'dislike' box when I evaluated the 'simplicity' and array of adjustment features, another check in the 'dislike' box for some of the audio tones, especially the full-range multi-tone. There were a few other negative check marks, too, but I knew some were things I might live-with if the device was less complicated and simpler.

A few years earlier I had use of an XP Gold MAXX, prior to the 'Power' version, and liked the general performance and Iron Audio Volume adjustment. The problems was mechanical and in a short time the 'S' rod and middle rod became very wobbly from the physical design. They later corrected that. The biggest problem was that they were not importable to this country or I would have bought one.

Then with their recent introduction of the ORX with a comparable light-weight and well-balanced configuration, I was again interested because from what I saw, the ORX appeared to provide Deus-like performance, but in a less-featured and much simpler package. So, I decided to check one out. I went through Joel (aka 'Kickindirt' here on these Forums) and bought a brand new unit.

So far I have no reason to part with my ORX and am generally well pleased by the design and performance.


Quote
UtahRich
I mentioned in another post that the Deus has 10 factory programs and room for several more Custom Programs. The factory programs cover a wide variety of possible needs.
If the Deus is like the ORX, then to help explain to Forum Readers, the ORX has 4 Programs (also referred to as Modes) that are all factory Default settings. You select the programmed search mode and begin hunting. If there are any settings you want to change, such as Sensitivity or Reactivity, you can easily do so and continue hunting. However, those are only momentary setting changes. They can not be saved in that default program. Once turned 'Off,' it will start up with the default settings if selected at 'Turn-On.'

Some makes and models on the market do not allow changes to the default settings, some do allow momentary changes to a default program only while in-use, and other models allow the user to make function changes to a default program as well as 'Save' those changes to always start up that way ... unless the operator desires to change it up again.

The ORX has 2 'Custom' slots so an operator can adjust all the function settings they prefer and 'Save' them in those 2 Custom Program slots to always start up as they were designed and saved. So my ORX has 4 Default programs and 2 Custom saved Programs, while your Deus, if designed similarly, has 10 default Programs and a few Custom Programs slots. Just wanted to be clear that I understand how the Deus was designed so I can easier follow posts people make related to that model in the future.


Quote
UtahRich
The Deus is my first Selectable Multi-Frequency Machine ---
I've owned several. I never cared for the White's DFX or newer V3i. I did like the Nokta and Nokta-Makro Impact, Multi-Kruzer and Anfibio design of Selectable Frequency models which lead to me taking a closer look at the XP ORX since I like being more in control of important functions such as an Operating Frequency.


Quote
UtahRich
As many of you know, the target ID values that are typically found on various brands of detectors CHANGE as the search frequency is changed. In general, the target ID's of US coins get bunched up closer to the top of the scale as the search frequency increases. There is less separation between coin types. This also means that for the Low Frequencies like 4kHz and 8kHz, the Target ID values are spread out providing better separation between targets.
That was one of the issues I had with the early Nokta Impact 'test sample' having the Visual Discrimination Indication numbers so different when switching between the default start-up 14 kHz and the lower and higher operating frequencies of different search modes. I wondered about and discussed 'Normalization' with Dilek at Nokta-Makro, and that finished product had the option to select either their 'standard' VDI numeric read-out or the option of using a 'Normalized' numeric display based on the 14 kHz start-up frequency. I much prefer a 'Normalized' response with a multi and selectable frequency model.

The Multi-Kruzer released early last year and the Anfibio Multi test sample I got last August also had the VDI scales 'Normalized' unless the operator wanted to make use of the different 'standard' display responses based on the search frequency. My preference, and I believe that of most users of these models, is just to rely on a 'Normalized' display response for all frequency choices.


Quote
UtahRich
This variation in target ID values presents a problem to those who are using a detector with selectable frequencies and are also using Visual Target ID. (also to those who have several single frequency detectors of different frequencies)

Good Question. Manufactures have given us some help with a software algorithm, a formula that converts the actual target ID from the frequency you are using to what would be considered that same Target ID in the base frequency. Here are some sample values from my Deus for both 8kHz and 18kHz Frequencies.

Coin. . . . . . . . . 8kHz. . . . . . . 18kHz
Nickel . . . . . . . . 46 . . . . . . . . . 62
Zinc Penny . . . . 73 . . . . . . . . . 85
Cu Penny . . . . . 82 . . . . . . . . . 89
Clad Dime . . . . 83 . . . . . . . . . 90
Clad Quarter . . .89 . . . . . . . . . 95
I was curious about how the ORX was designed because I didn't see a switch, and I saw a post where NWCindy commented about the different VDI numbers based upon the operating frequency chosen, referring to the Coin program options. I grabbed an assortment of coins from my pocket and checked them all, with many duplicates, just to see what their responses were. I did that with the base VLF range of 14.4 kHz in both the Coin Deep Program as well as for Coin Fast, and I jotted down all the numeric readings for all the coins. I then moved to the LF range frequencies of 31.1 kHz and up to 74.0 kHz in both of the default Coin Hunting Programs, and jotted down the numeric VDI responses for all the coins. I was pleased to note that the ORX is designed with all responses 'Normalized' in each operating frequency. There was only a slight difference of ± 1 or 2 numbers in the read-outs and that was really quite typical from frequency differences. Matter-of-fact, it was very impressive since there is an extreme difference in frequency gaps compared with other selectable multi-frequency models I have used.

I don't have that list handy right now but using the 14.4 kHz default frequency the VDI's of the ORX are very close to those you show for the Deus at 18 kHz. Yes, the read-outs are somewhat bunched for our USA coins which are mostly going to be silver or "clad" of plated copper, or copper or zinc, but we use more higher-conductive metals in our coinage. Even the so-called nickels (5¢ denomination) and the older coins we like to search for, such as Large Cents, 2¢ and 3¢ pieces, Flying Eagle and other 'fatty' Indian Head 1¢ coins, fall in that mid-to-upper VDI range. To me, that is all well and fine.

The ferrous and non-ferrous break-point is somewhere down around the '23' to '24' numeric point so the spread is really move functional for a wider-range of applications other than common Coin Hunting in the USA. Consider the countries that use less noble metal for their minted coinage, such as Canada or many places that are foreign-to-us. Or just a much more diverse amount of coins that were made for a lot longer than we've been a country that cover a much, much wider range of sizes and shapes and alloy content.

We can add the USA back into consideration if we think of how many devoted people search for Gold Jewelry, from thin gold chains and dinky children's rings through the many shapes and sizes of rings, pendants and other desirables that can run way down to the very low-conductive 'foil' range. That covers a lot of territory where they might fall into a range that is below the 5¢ conductivity. We also have a lot of devoted Relic Hunters who search sites of the Rev. War and Civil War and are looking for anything of interest, many especially for bullets, buttons and insignia, and a lot of those are of a smaller size and fall in a lower-conductivity range, too.

That makes the bigger spread more useful for many people when all the higher-conductivity coin targets logically fall into a higher-end of the VDI response spectrum. 'Normalized' VDI of the ORX ... by design ... means the user doesn't need to turn any function On or Off, nor try to memorize how their detector is going to visually respond should they change the operating frequency. Personally, I like that as there is less to have to be concerned about or tinker with.


Quote
UtahRich
On the Deus, XP has made 18kHz the normal or base frequency. So, when I check the option to have my target ID's NORMALIZED with my controller, all targets ID's are converted to what the target ID WOULD BE if I was searching with the 18kHz frequency. This simplifies recognizing target ID's.
'Simplifies.'thumbs up Now, there's a word I really like to use, and the ORX comes to us packed with performance and power, yet without a lot of adjustment features that, for many, can be confusing or just not so necessary. I guess I could say the ORX is kind of 'clutter-free' compared with many models on the market.winking smiley


Quote
UtahRich
Well, this gets more complicated, because the factory programs that are used give me the opportunity to select how many TONES I would like. I can select from 2-tone, 3-tone, 4-tone, 5-tone, Pitch and Full-tones. We're going to ignore Pitch and Full tones right now and look at the 2-tone through 5-tones options.

In these options, I can select the break points between each of the tones, the point of transition from tone 2 to tone 3 for example. Lots of customization is possible. Which is great. I have a 4-tone program with a break point set between foil and nickel and another between tabs and Indian Head Penny.
I like 2-Tone operation in some areas and can set the Discriminate level, which also serves as the Tone Break setting for the lower tones, at '24' and turn the Iron/Low-Tone audio 'Off' and that would leave me with hearing the mid-tone and high-tone for a 2-Tone audio performance.

But, most of the time, I am very comfortable relying on a 3-Tone audio response when I hear Iron nails and less conductive ferrous debris with a Low-Tone, or what some call a Lower Iron Audio Tone, so I simply hunt in the default 3-Tone Coin Program and have my Disc./Tone Break set at '7' to '9' and that makes all the Iron Nails and some of the lesser-conductive iron respond with the Lower-Tone audio, if I have Iron Volume turned 'On.' Yes, that might put some of the more conductive ferrous objects in the lower-end of the Mid-Tone range but there's usually not that much of it, and it is more easily discernible by some mixed audio responses and the very effective and efficient numeric VDI read-out. With any make or model, I prefer that to trying to pick-and-choose between an assortment of audio Tone ID choices. It just keeps it 'simple' and easier to live with, and to me that means easier to enjoy.


Quote
UtahRich
Well, the other day, I am standing on a hillside thinking to myself that it would be helpful if I had a greater spread to the target ID values I am seeing on the display. I was hunting in 8kHz, but had selected target normalization, so all of my target ID's were being kinda bunched up near the top. I thought about what might happen if I Turned OFF target Normalization. Would it mess up my programs since the programs were set up with my tone breaks according to the 18kHz scale? Would I have to go in and realign my tone breaks for my custom programs? And what about the factory programs? I paused and decided to wait until I got home.

What did I find? In a nutshell. I didn't have anything to worry about. If I turn OFF target normalization, the break points in my programs follow. Meaning if I have a break point in my 4-tones program set just below nickel. If I turn off target normalization and go look at the break points for that program, I will find that the break point followed my change and it remains just below nickel for whatever search frequency I am using.
I am really glad to hear that it works .... for you, that is. Less tinkering makes me a Happy Hunter


Quote
UtahRich
Cool
Yep! And the ORX for me is Extra Cool !!


And to another question you slipped in there: How do you mentally keep track of the different target ID's of items as you change frequencies? (or detectors)I prefer a white-colored search coil, if I have a choice, and keep the smaller solid-body coils on my Nokta 15 kHz CoRe and 19 kHz Relic devices. Not only is there a frequency difference, but the Ferrous/Non-Ferrous break-point of the CoRe is '40' and the Relic is '20' which left me with very different numeric read-outs.

As I stated, those coils were also solid body designs and that allowed me to but some stickers that I lined up on top of the search coils. The CoRe had: '40' -- '56' -- '82' while the Relic's coil had '20' -- '45' -- '68' so that when searching a site, a glace at the VDI display and 'coil-top' numbers reminded my where the detectors read. The first number is the Ferrous/Non-Ferrous point. The second number is about where our US 5¢ coin reads. And the third number is where most modern Zinc and old Indian Head 1¢ coins read. It's more difficult to stick number labels on black coils for these old eyes to see which is what I prefer a solid white coil for that task.

Rich, 'Thank You' again for bringing up a good topic related to Audio and now Visual performance and information. It can be helpful for users of these devices to better learn their capabilities.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Fisher: 1, Nokta-Makro: 3, Teknetics: 1, Tesoro: 2, White's: 2, XP: 1
Killer B's 'Hornet' and White's 'Pro Star'
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

Deus Users - Target ID normalization - Nice Deus Feature.

UtahRich 130 July 07, 2019 10:09PM

Re: Deus Users - Target ID normalization - Nice Deus Feature.

Kickindirt 86 July 08, 2019 12:09PM

How about XP 'ORX' Users - Target ID 'Normalization' - An even Nicer ORX Feature.smiling smiley

Monte 240 July 08, 2019 08:21AM

Pretty nifty....now if only...........

OregonGregg 104 July 08, 2019 06:27AM

LOL. Well, you got me there Gregg.

UtahRich 93 July 08, 2019 11:07AM

Re: Pretty nifty....now if only...........

D&P-OR 82 July 08, 2019 08:01AM

ORX, solving the worlds detecting problems thumbs up N/T

UtahRich 83 July 08, 2019 11:59AM

smileys with diet Dr. Pepper float I'm with you on that one! N/T

Monte 74 July 08, 2019 08:19AM



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 25
Record Number of Guests: 302 on March 10, 2018