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T2+ and F44 Q&A time ... But it left me a little puzzled.thinking

February 16, 2019 02:15PM avatar
Several questions came to mind that present several variable to consider, and also raise the topics of discussion for understanding things like 'Response-and-Recovery' from ACCEPTED targets, such as a series of coins, as well as when dealing withy REJECTED targets such as Discriminated nails or other ferrous-based objects (or even lower-conductive but rejected non-ferrous trash like foil) and then recovering fast enough to produce a quick-response to a nearby Accepted target.


Quote
jmaryt
hi monte!
the thought occurred to me that you have a lot of experience using, both, the f44 with 7" concentric coil, (also, some experience with the 5" d.d. coil on the f44), and the t2+ with the 5" d.d. coil.
I have ample experience with the Teknetics T2 series, all of them, using the 5" DD coil as that was, and is, my main-use coil. The F44 I've only had a few months but with only a few breaks in the winter weather to use it, and the bulk of that was with the 7" Concentric coil. So with the T2 and my new T2+ I've used the 5" a lot, but with the Fisher F44 only a little.


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jmaryt
this being factual, i would like to know which detector and coil combination, in your view, has the "fastest" clock recovery speed ....
A simple answer to the topic of a 'fast clock speed' as associated with 'separation' between closely-positioned ACCEPTED targets, such as copper or silver coins, .... hands-down the winner is the T2+. Not just the fastest between it and the F44, and not just the fastest of all the detectors I have under my roof right now (which is 15 or 16 detectors), but the T2 series are just about the fastest at response-and-recovery of any detector out there.

Now we get to the trickier questions:


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jmaryt
...from various non-ferrous to ferrous targets in the "same" soil matrix? ..
It's easy to compare many non-ferrous targets most folks are after because those would be round-shaped coins, trade-tokens, rings, etc. It's easy to position two or more of those in order to 'test' or 'check' a response-and-recovery time, or ability, based upon how closely they are positioned.

The same is not always true when you consider most of the more typical ferrous-based junk, and naturally the more common ferrous (iron) objects we encounter are nails. This presents a few problems only associated with this ferrous object:

• length
• thickness
• shape (straight or bent)
• physical orientation to the non-ferrous object
• and if not a nail or other wire-iron type object, then all of the above can be an even greater challenge


Then we have to factor in the Discrimination setting, such as:

• set to an All-Metal Accept setting
• set low so as to just barely Accept the iron target
• set to just barely Reject the iron target
• a high Disc. setting at the Ferrous/Non-Ferrous break point


Finally, it is important to remember that ferrous objects have a different effect on the EMF than a similar size and shape non-ferrous object. Because there is a different effect, wherein the ferrous object actually warps and enhances the EMF compared with a comparable size/shape non-ferrous object that robs some of that EMF, it gets to be very difficult to try and consider 'clock speed' due to these above mentioned factors.


Quote
jmaryt
... also which of the two detector combos has the quickest recovery from ferrous to ferrous ...
Considering all that I just mentioned, you are usually not going to be able to Accept ferrous objects and get quick responses with them as close to each other as with two non-ferrous objects. And to answer your question about "quick-recovery" that would be with the understanding that you have a low Disc. setting so as to hear the ferrous target produce a positive or Accepted response. It just won't be as good as if comparing non-ferrous target recovery time.

Also, keep in mind the "double-beep" effect from elongated ferrous debris such as a nail. When swept lengthwise, you will most often hear a 'double-beep' due to the elongated effect on the search coil's EMF.

And since we are considering responsive performance, generally, not always but generally, a Double-D designed search coil can pick between or separate them better than most comparable-size search coils. In the case of your comparison things are more fair because we are looking at two same-size round, 5" DD coils being compared.


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jmaryt
... or non-ferrous to non-ferrous in the same soil matrix.
And we'll close the Q&A session with the easiest-to-answer which is, as I stated earlier regarding the comparison of the T2+ w/5" DD to almost any rival ... it is flat-out speedy!

As I close I guess another way to look at your different questioning is that it could be more associated with a detector/coil combinations 'unmasking ' ability when desired (non-ferrous) targets are in a debris-filled environment. My simple answer to this consideration is that I used to use various Teknetics T2 versions with the 5" DD coil because they provided me the very quick-response and recovery with competitive iron nail handling from '06 through '14 and compared well against other brands and models I used, with a bit of an 'edge' in trashier conditions going to the T2.

Since January of '15 I have been, and still am, relying on two better-performing models that come very close to the T2 in 'quick-response' of closely spaced desired targets, but have a significant edge when it comes to unmasking and hunting in a more iron contaminated environment. I hunt in dense trash most of the time, but not all of the time, and that's why I also have a Teknetics Omega 8000 and two Fisher F44's in my Regular-Use Detector Outfit, because they can do very well in the more typical Coin Hunting conditions.

The T2+ was a model I wanted to add into my Outfit. A very good general-purpose detector that will probably see a little more use in urban Coin Hunting sites but still in low-to-modest littered old locations it will still put in some work-time.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Fisher: F-44, Nokta-Makro: FORS CoRe and FORS Relic, Teknetics: Omega 8000,
Tesoro: Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX, White's: XLT, XP: ORX
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Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

t2+ vs. f44

jmaryt 211 February 15, 2019 06:21PM

T2+ and F44 Q&A time ... But it left me a little puzzled.thinking

Monte 171 February 16, 2019 02:15PM

Re: T2+ and F44 Q&A time ... But it left me a little puzzled.thinking

WM6 130 February 17, 2019 12:58AM

The Omega 8500 .. my detector budget .. my interest level.

Monte 140 February 17, 2019 06:48AM

Re: The Omega 8500 .. my detector budget .. my interest level.

tabman 120 February 18, 2019 08:06AM

You jogged my memory and helped with my conclusion.

Monte 116 February 20, 2019 06:16AM

Re: T2+ and F44 Q&A time ... But it left me a little puzzled.thinking

jmaryt 135 February 16, 2019 03:50PM

j.t., and reply to clear up my answer about separation and unmasking.

Monte 114 February 17, 2019 06:28AM

Re: j.t., and reply to clear up my answer about separation and unmasking.

jmaryt 131 February 18, 2019 01:46PM

j.t., not quqite, but it depends on how close and how much.

Monte 107 February 19, 2019 04:26AM

Re: j.t., not quqite, but it depends on how close and how much.

jmaryt 119 February 19, 2019 09:54AM

Almost, but not with a tough iron challenge.

Monte 132 February 19, 2019 05:27PM

Re: Almost, but not with a tough iron challenge.

jmaryt 125 February 19, 2019 06:21PM

Re: j.t., and reply to clear up my answer about separation and unmasking.

jmaryt 140 February 17, 2019 01:46PM

John, I enjoy every detector in my current Outfit ... but none of them are 'perfect.'

Monte 125 February 17, 2019 08:18PM

Re: John, I enjoy every detector in my current Outfit ... but none of them are 'perfect.'

jmaryt 130 February 17, 2019 11:39PM

My Teknetics and Fisher regarding EMI noise and separation.

Monte 120 February 18, 2019 01:15AM

Re: My Teknetics and Fisher regarding EMI noise and separation.

jmaryt 120 February 18, 2019 05:07PM

Re: My Teknetics and Fisher regarding EMI noise and separation.

tabman 169 February 18, 2019 05:21PM

'Thank You' for the T2+ information.thumbs up

Monte 126 February 19, 2019 04:34AM

Re: 'Thank You' for the T2+ information.thumbs up

tabman 114 February 19, 2019 08:55AM

Re: 'Thank You' for the T2+ information.thumbs up

jmaryt 131 February 19, 2019 10:04AM

Re: My Teknetics and Fisher regarding EMI noise and separation.

jmaryt 122 February 18, 2019 11:50PM

Re: My Teknetics and Fisher regarding EMI noise and separation.

D&P-OR 145 February 18, 2019 06:54PM



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