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Good Christmas morning ... except I can't get out to play, soo...

December 25, 2019 09:49AM avatar
I'll just check up on the Forums and see if I can be of any help. Jimbola, you're first up!


Quote
Jimbola
If it states that a Sef is compatible with the MXT, is it also compatible with the MXT Pro?
Yes, you will have search coil compatibility with the original MXT, the M6, the MXT Pro and MXT All-Pro (same detector with an 'All' sticker on the side).


Quote
Jimbola
I've been reading about Sefs 5 x 10 and DD 6 x 9 coils, where the opinion is that a Sef is the better choice. Opinions please.
Input would be appreciated,
Just to be clear, I want to verify the search coils you're asking about. I was checking the aftermarket coil sites earlier this week and noticed a few new things on Detech. I was familiar with the four coils that came up when I typed in White's MXT Pro, and none of those were a 5X10 or 6X9 size SEF coils. I was just doing a quick check so maybe they now also offer those sizes for the MXT 'family' of detectors.

You asked: "SEF Vs DD" and the 13" Ultimate or SEF 12X15 or SEF 8X6 'Butterfly' coils are all a Double-D design. Essentially the Tx and Rx windings are on opposite sides of the coil and they both overlap in the coil's center area. The two primary coil types used today for VLF detectors are either Concentric designs or Double-D, and these SEF named coils are a DD design.

You referred to a 6X9 DD, and did you mean White's 6X10 Eclipse elliptical coil for the MXT series? DD coils are also offered by NEL and other aftermarket coil makers.

You also stated: "I've been reading about ......... where the opinion is that a SEF is the better choice." Just like reading here, or getting my response, you are simply soliciting opinions, and I'll share mine, but did you also qualify what type of site the opinion-makers were searching? What settings they used? What or how they compared different search coils? What they were searching for?

So, let me share my personal opinions. I've been using Double-D search coils since 1971 and Coplaner or Concentric coils for roughly the same span of time. I disagree with a lot of the comments I hear stated in a video or in print in a forum post because I believe most people are simply passing on something they have heard or read and don't have any personal experience to back up their claim or statement. Also, it is sometimes difficult to pick-and-choose a better coil for some detectors because a manufacturer, or aftermarket supplier, doesn't produce two comparable size search coils of each type, Concentric and Double-D, to be worked side-by-side.

Additionally, I don't have a preference of which coil type is better, simply based on the type. It is more important to know how a particular detector was designed because some detector models have a circuitry design that tends to favor either a Double-d or a Concentric coil. Thus is isn't just a matter of coil size and internal design type, it is also important to know how a particular make/model detector behaves with a certain search coil. Some can work OK with either type of coil .... but some don't.

Here in my den I have over a dozen detectors in my outfit, and I keep my favorite coil for each specific model mounted and ready for the types of applications I grab them for. I have a DD coil on my Nokta CoRe and Relic and Simplex + and XP ORX, and Concentric coils on my Makro Racer 2, Tesoro Bandido II microMAX and Silver Sabre microMAX, White's IDX Pro and a Fisher F44 I have as a loaner-unit.

Now, in some cases I didn't have a choice because Nokta / Makro didn't make a Concentric coil for the Core or Relic, and XP doesn't make a Concentric for their ORX or Deus. Tesoro did make a Double-D for their general-use models just as White's had a DD for their Classic series, but in both cases, the DD coils didn't work well on the Tesoro's or the White's. Thus, I keep the best performing and size coil mounted that works for me where I need it to.

I do have two exceptions in my litter of detectors, and those are the Nokta / Makro Simplex = and Racer 2. The Simplex + is brand new on the market and they haven't made any smaller-size coils yet. Coming soon in 2020, and I do hope they offer a 5" DD and 7" Concentric for it. When it comes to optional search coils for individual detectors, the Racer 2 makes a great example because I have the small 5" DD on a spare lower rod in my Accessory Coil Tote in case I ever need it, or if I loan it out and it's needed, and it works well with that DD coil. However, for me and my needs, it works much better with the round 7" Concentric coil, and because that makes a great general-purpose match-up, that coil stays mounted full-time.

Considering a mid-size DD coil, I have a 5X9½ DD HF coil on one of my XP ORX's and I also have a 5X9½ DD open-frame coil for my CoRe and Relic in my A.C.T. They also work terrific and I can switch to them, if desired, when working a low-to-moderately littered site.

So, for reference, there's what I have and what I use, but you asked about the White's MXT or MXT Pro, so let me share my experiences, and 'opinions', about search coil selections for the MXT 'family' of detectors. Keep in mind, too, that at this point I don't, and readers don't either, know what specific model you are using and especially don't know the types of sites you plan to hunt with a new coil. What kind of site challenges might you have to deal with? Clean and open areas? Modern trash in urban places? Taking on a lot of iron nails or other ferrous debris in a Relic Hunting environment?

I used to use White's MXT Pro as a primary-use detector, I was privileged to be asked to check out an early prototype that didn't even look like the finished product or have a name. It was in the early stages and had their 6X10 DD coil attached, and I found it interesting. Before I left Alan's office I also demonstrated a few things I didn't care for, but was interested in their project and was excited to see what would finally be released.

I had several models in my working detector battery at the time, but when the original MXT was released I was sent one, and it came with two coils. The standard 950 Concentric and the 4X6 Eclipse DD. I mostly search trashier sites and have preferred a smaller-than-stock coil since late '71 and I really tried to like that little 'Shooter' DD coil ... but couldn't. I would work the MXT against all the other detectors I had, including at least 4 White's models at the time, and I knew what the MXT had to offer in the way of design and performance potential, but the search coil fell short on delivery.

In just a few months I got the 6½" diameter round Concentric coil (they call it the 5.3 Eclipse) and I reworked sites I had been hunting. I had each coil on a lower rod and did a lot of side-by-side testing afield. I also do a lot of 'bench testing' or some on-the-ground comparisons using Test Samples, and the small, round Concentric coil was simply better. My 'opinion' has been that it wasn't based on the search coil type as much as it was the detector circuitry design.

The MXT impressed me enough that it became one of my two primary-use detectors, and several years later, with the talents of Cal Moreland as their lead engineer, the MXT was enhanced and improved to their final/current version, the MXT Pro. The new features and changes gave me a better detector and it was my more reliable detector to be carried in my vehicle all the time. I still had my other favorite detectors, but the MXT Pro moved to the head-of-the-pack, especially for working the heavily iron-littered ghost towns and other relic-type old sites. Always mounted was a 6½" Concentric coil.

In seminars, group presentation, and other one-on-one get-togethers, I have worked with others to help them learn their detectors and coils and settings., Many of them had an MXT or an MXT Pro, or the sibling M6, and on many occasions they had a White's or an aftermarket DD coil attached. Why, I asked? Because they read somewhere or someone had told them it was a better coil. So, I would use some of my Test Samples and do some simple side-by-side demonstrations. I'd let them use their search coil and set their detector up with the adjustments they preferred, and then we would all get to see and hear the performance and results.

Most of the time, and I mean better than 8-out-of-10 times, the 4X6 DD and 6X10 DD from White's, or an SEF 6X8 Butterfly DD, or 5X9-ish DD from NEL or any other aftermarket coil maker, just didn't match the performance they got using my MXT or MXT Pro w/6½" Concentric. Most of the time, they ended up changing to that coil for the types of hunting they did, and those included both urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting and rural type Relic Hunting applications.

I am not saying White's or other coil makers offerings in that general configuration are not good coils or don't work. But I'll simply share my 'opinion' that I haven't found them to work as well in most side-by-side comparisons as a 6½" Concentric on the MXT series. From MY use of this model and a big assortment of search coils, I have found the MXT's to have a circuitry design that just seems to favor a Concentric coil.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detectors: I rely on an assortment of personal favorites I happen to like that work for me when and where I need them.
Pinpointers: Makro & Pulse-Dive .. Headphones: Killer B's 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' ... Detector Pro's Gray Ghost XP
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

Sef Vs DD for MXT Pro

Jimbola 149 December 24, 2019 05:37PM

Re: Sef Vs DD for MXT Pro

DirtDigger 121 December 25, 2019 12:11PM

I know you like the MXT Pro, Jim, and where you live

Monte 119 December 25, 2019 05:29PM

Re: I know you like the MXT Pro, Jim, and where you live

DirtDigger 97 December 25, 2019 09:23PM

Favorite Mods for Detectors ?

UtahRich 75 December 26, 2019 04:06PM

Re: Favorite Mods for Detectors ?

DirtDigger 71 December 26, 2019 05:04PM

Re: I know you like the MXT Pro, Jim, and where you live

DirtDigger 103 December 26, 2019 10:18AM

Weight is part of the problem along with balance, and search coils

Monte 82 December 26, 2019 11:08AM

Good reply, but it's a shame thata Minelab couldn't

Monte 100 December 26, 2019 08:43AM

Re: Good reply, but it's a shame thata Minelab couldn't

D&P-OR 83 December 26, 2019 09:28AM

Good Christmas morning ... except I can't get out to play, soo...

Monte 85 December 25, 2019 09:49AM



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