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Re: Del, some answers & information for you:

February 17, 2020 07:36AM
Monte----I find all this VERY interesting!----Yes, we will have to get together this Spring & do some tests.---We will be home from the SW in mid to late April.----Come on up to Baker & spend some time with us---Patsy will fix us a good dinner also. smiling smiley----It's been an expensive winter out for us this year & we aren't going to make the next WTHO---but we will be home.-----The more tests a person does, the more you get "eye openers" of what your detectors will or will not do.----I started in this game 45 years ago & I'm still learning stuff all the time.----I try to keep an open mind (even in my old age)! smiling smiley------As the old saying goes---"there's no such thing as a perfect detector"---you just try & learn their strengths & weaknesses.------------Del-------
FIRST: See the attachment. I have my Nail Board Performance Test so I am calling this the 'Plank Board' test, This is a piece of 1X4 that I have the Nails and Nickel on.

SECOND: The reason I made this simple 'test' using a US 5¢ coin and two Iron nails was because I saw a You Tube video where a fellow had a lot of buried targets and then this set-up, on a board, with two nails and a nickel. he used a Nokta / Makro Simplex+ w/11" DD coil and a Garrett AT Pro with, if I recall, the stock DD coil. With the board laying left-to-right, and the Nickel between two Nails and the Nails laying vertical on the board, or "pointed" at him, he swept the coils left-and-right, Only and got an audible 'hit' on the Nickel coin with the AT Pro, but NO response at all from the Simplex.

Later, he did the same 'test' at the same location using the Nails and Nickel on a wooden board using the Minelab Vanquish and Nokta / Makro Simplex+, and once again, the Vanquish got a good 'hit' when swept from the left-and-right horizontally (a crosswise sweep of the Nail-Coin-Nail) but not a single 'beep' from the Simplex+.

I wished the Simplex+ had smaller coils available because I usually wouldn't consider the 11" round DD an advantage, but I also didn't consider the AT Pro and Vanquish size coils an advantage, either. Either the Simplex+ is a poor performer, or, and the only thing I can think of, is the demonstration either had bad settings or it was an 'operator-controlled' failure.

Thus, the ONLY way for me to know was to set up a duplicate test and check out my own bunch of detectors to include my Simplex+.

THIRD: To ensure that my test, and all future tests of any make or model detector or search coil, was done on an exacting Test Sample,' I drilled holes and anchored the Iron Nails in-position with plastic wire-ties, and made a circle on the board between them so that I had the same Iron Nails in the Same Orientation and could position a US Nickel coin in the Same Relationship to the Iron Nails.

With this prepared 'Plank Board' I am able to check out any make or model detector or coil using the settings I plan to search with, and allow anyone else to you their chosen detector and coil to check the performance they get on the exact Test Sample.

FOURTH: Every test on the You Tube video the fellow ONLY swept the test piece 'crosswise' from left-to-right, or horizontally. I also wanted to do the test by sweeping the set-up vertically, or 'lengthwise' going back-and-forth with the length of the nails.

FIFTH: We need to remember that these Test Pieces have the Nail-Coin-Nail all positioned on the same plane, as if just laying on top of the ground. Someone will always point out this fact and then ask when the result would be if the Nails were closer to the coil and the Nickel coin was lower. Good question, but there are always going to be too many variables to have a rock-solid answer. The Coin could be at different depths, or might be off to the side a little, or directly under a nail, or it could be in a canted orientation

Too many variables, so I decided to keep the Nickel coin between the two Iron nails and drew another circle to place it in position, except this time, it was under the 1X4 board. Since the Iron Nails are on top of the board and the Nickel is under, there is almost a 1" difference between the plane of the Nails and Nickel. This does create a challenge for any detector / coil combination.

What size nails were used for this test Gregg---and were they cut nails (the old square nails)---or newer (round) nails?
Both are cut square nails from the gold mining town of 'Lost' which dates to 1867 and virtually vacated a decade or so later. Note: I took the attached photo of the two Square Nails and Buffalo Nickel before I drilled the board to put plastic wire-ties through to anchor the Nails in place. Snugging them tight so the nails wouldn't move resulted in the nails being just slightly closer to the Buffalo Nickel than in the photo. I am going to have my 'Plank Board' test in Nevada with some other Nail tests for the WTHO in June, but since you're an hour or so away, I'll make a drive your direction this spring / summer and you two can check it out with all your detectors.

-I did this same test you described with large round (rusty) nails just the other day & my ORX with 9" h.f. coil passed it (east to west)
There can be a little difference in effect based on the size and type of Nail used, and the 'surface rust' has really no impact. The problem with Nails can be from their size, yes, and if they are straight or bent, have a head or not, etc. The real issue is that ferrous objects have a different effect on the EMF then do comparable-size non-ferrous objects.

Then it's gets to the size and shape of the internal search coil windings, and then the make-or-break factor for successful handling is going to be the detector's circuitry design and how it handles and processes the signals. And remember, too, that the circuitry design is also behaving the way it does based on the operator-controlled settings. Such as the Discriminate level used.

I think the best test in this regard would be with medium to large sized cut nails (which I don't have with me).----------Del
The 'best test' we have no full control of because it is going to be based on the particular site being searched. How many nails are present? What size, shape and 'type' of Nail is being encountered. What is the orientation or relationship of a Nail to a desired Target? How many Nails are close to the desired target? Are Iron Nails close to the coil, on the same plane, or deeper than the desired Target. What is the size, shape and alloy content (conductivity) of the desired Target?

My Nail Board Performance Test is based on an actual in-the-field encounter in the ghost town of Frisco, Utah. As I got up to the now, barren 'school hill' I could see a very heavy scattering or Iron Nails on top of th ground. When I looked down to try and spot a clearing to Ground Balance, I saw a circular disk surrounded by four Iron Nails of different sizes and positions with reference to the disk's position. The disk was an 1880 something Indian Head 1¢. I placed a paper from my notebook on top of all five objects and made an exact duplication of their positions. Then I picked up the Nails and Indian Head and used a small 8X11½ piece of thin cardboard to lay the samples out in their exact orientation. An exact duplication of what I encountered.

My One Iron Nail on One Brass Button Front is also from an in-the-field encounter. The 'plank Board' 'test' using the two nails and Nickel is an 'imagined' or a 'could-happen' test that someone did and I saw it on You Tube ... but ti makes a valid test for learning a detector / coil potential and doing side-by-side comparisons of multiple detector and coils. I guess you could say that it is both 'educational' and 'fun' all at the same time. (Especially if you have a detector and coil that are performing well.smiling smiley)


Some additional information:

Length of Left Square Nail: 2⅝"
Length of Right Square Nail: 2⅝+"
Distance Head-to-Head: 1⅝"
Distance Tip-to-Tip: 1⅜"
Inside Nail Edge across the center of the Nickel to Inside Nail Edge: 1⅝"
Distance from Left Nail Inside Edge to the Nickel: ⅜+"
Distance from Right Nail Inside Edge to the Nickel: ⅜"

As close as these old, bad eyes can come using a Made in the USA wooden ruler.
Subject Author Views Posted

Hopes & Dreams, squashed like a bug.

OregonGregg 123 February 16, 2020 05:04PM

Re: Hopes & Dreams, squashed like a bug.

Elbert 52 February 19, 2020 03:26PM

Re: Hopes & Dreams, squashed like a bug.

OregonGregg 52 February 19, 2020 04:01PM

Zincoln's Whites results...and a Compadre Attachments

zincoln 91 February 17, 2020 03:37PM

Just a few updates or corrections for Gregg's post.

Monte 102 February 17, 2020 05:36AM

Now you got me thinking...........

OregonGregg 83 February 17, 2020 08:52AM

There is still hope ............. Attachments

OregonGregg 77 February 17, 2020 06:06PM

Re: There is still hope .............

WM6 56 February 18, 2020 04:27AM

In many ways I agree, however, not totally. Here's why.

Monte 52 February 18, 2020 08:56AM

Re: There is still hope ............. Attachments

glabelle 84 February 18, 2020 08:26AM

That photo pretty well nails it. . . . . . . . . . so to speak. N/T

UtahRich 40 February 19, 2020 08:21AM

Re: There is still hope .............

WM6 55 February 18, 2020 11:26AM

Re: There is still hope ............. Attachments

glabelle 76 February 18, 2020 01:57PM

Re: There is still hope .............

WM6 43 February 18, 2020 03:50PM

thumbs upthumbs upthumbs up .. George, 'Thank You.' That photo even out-speaks me!eye popping smiley N/T

Monte 40 February 18, 2020 10:01AM

Re: There is still hope .............

glabelle 44 February 18, 2020 07:42AM

Re: There is still hope .............

glabelle 44 February 17, 2020 09:23PM

Yes, 'spreadsheets' fior OregonGregg.

Monte 50 February 18, 2020 03:34AM

Analytics for Gregg -

UtahRich 46 February 18, 2020 08:16AM

Another test suggestion

glabelle 60 February 17, 2020 09:11AM

Re: Another test suggestion

OregonGregg 53 February 17, 2020 09:21AM

Re: Just a few updates or corrections for Gregg's post.

glabelle 57 February 17, 2020 08:47AM

Re: Just a few updates or corrections for Gregg's post.

glabelle 70 February 17, 2020 07:27AM

Re: Just a few updates or corrections for Gregg's post.

Monte 63 February 17, 2020 01:17PM

Re: Just a few updates or corrections for Gregg's post.

glabelle 45 February 17, 2020 01:48PM

Deciding on a 'favorite' detector for Ghost Town Hunting? Simple ...

Monte 50 February 18, 2020 03:16AM

And some over-the-phone results.

Monte 66 February 17, 2020 06:45AM

Re: And some over-the-phone results.

diggindeep 59 February 17, 2020 09:11AM

Re: Hopes & Dreams, squashed like a bug.

Kickindirt 57 February 16, 2020 10:44PM

Coil size matters . . . . ???

UtahRich 49 February 17, 2020 11:54AM

Kickindirt, about the ORX and coils used.

Monte 72 February 17, 2020 04:45AM

Re: Kickindirt, about the ORX and coils used.

Kickindirt 54 February 17, 2020 06:04AM

Squashed like a bug?

UtahRich 63 February 16, 2020 10:29PM

Re: Hopes & Dreams, squashed like a bug.

diggindeep 73 February 16, 2020 07:48PM

I agree with you, but ....

Monte 72 February 17, 2020 03:43AM

Re: Hopes & Dreams, squashed like a bug.

D&P-OR 78 February 16, 2020 07:21PM

Del, some answers & information for you: Attachments

Monte 80 February 17, 2020 02:57AM

Re: Del, some answers & information for you:

D&P-OR 59 February 17, 2020 07:36AM

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