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Joel, just some responses to your thoughts.

November 17, 2020 09:26PM avatar
Quote
Kickindirt
Gregg I wouldn't count out your nokta/makro machines for the silver stack test. Bury the stack 6" and I bet your machine hits it just fine.

Hitting the Short-Stack of silver coins can be done by SOME of the Nokta / Makro models, sometimes dependent on the search coil. Some of them, however, can't hit on the Short-Stack due to some of the circuitry design.of which the operator has no control as it relates to the motion-based Discriminate mode.

For example, using both the FORS CoRe and FORS Relic, and with their smallest, 5X9½ and standard 7X11 DD coils, they do NOT produce a proper audio response on the Short-Stack and the main reason is related to the Disc. mode's GB reference. The Racer 2, however, w/5" DD, 7" Concentric and NEL 'Snake' coil DOES hit on the Short-Stack as well as their Midi Hoard w/7" Concentric.

It doesn't matter if the stack of coins in on the ground and you sweep over them, or if they were buried at 6". I have tested the Short-Stack of 6 coins as well as a slightly larger simulated 'stash' of silver coins buried at 4" to about 8" and there was no improvement. Actually, it can often be more challenging for a detector / coil combination because they then also have to process the ground signal. Burying silver coins, or copper, isn't going to help improve their responsiveness.


Quote
Kickindirt
I would love to see a nailboard test buried for a couple yrs and compare then to one just thrown down on the ground.

We do that all the time when hunting any of the old town sites, homesteads, pioneer or military encampments, gold mining or logging camps, stage stops and all sorts of old-use locations that have a lot of Iron Nails scattered about over time that have been disturbed in a way to reposition them at any depth below surface. However, that, again, is what we are usually facing when we head out detecting. Yet we also eyeball the many metal objects laying about on the ground surface, and quite often those are Iron Nails. I have also found a lot of coins or trade tokens, mostly coins, that I also eyeball fully exposed or partially exposed on the surface. Older coins in the older locations, to include Seated Liberty and Barber silvers, Indian Head and some early wheat-back Pennies, Shield and 'V' Nickels, and very often they are in a generally littered place because the area saw a lot of activity of some type to generate the coin and token loss.

I've encountered many coin & nail or multi-nail scatterings over the past 37+ years of ghost town and Relic Hunting, but lucked onto the Indian Head Penny and four Iron nails, in the very same orientation, that made my Nail Board Performance Test. It is a very legitimate 'Test' because it represents an actual in-the-field encounter.and I always wished I had a good actual case set-up to test. It represents similar encounters I have made or am likely to make in the future in dense Iron Nail conditions. Most often I find old coins that are barely out-of-sight and get toe-scuffed from a depth of ½" to about 3", generally, and I also encounter Iron Nails on the surface near those coins, but I find some of them. And I also encounter Iron Nails on about the same plane as the coin or easily just below or somewhere near the coin to present a negative influence on the overall target signal.

I can not duplicate ALL of the coin Vs nail encounters because most are unseen until target recovery. But I could duplicate the in-the-field encounter back in May of '94, and I look at this test very logically. What is the logic? It is this:

• I know Iron Nails can mask or partially mask a desired higher-conductive coin or token, and I know that I find good targets in a mix with the undesired Iron Nails.

• Logically, I want the odds in my favor, and ONE WAY to do that is learn what detectors and what coils and what settings there are that allow me to get the best performance of a possible 8-hits on the NBPT, and the odds just might be in my favor.

• Logically, if a detector / coil / settings can not do well on the same-plane NBPT, I sure don't think they will do better with a more challenging arraignment, to include being out of sight or on different planes..

Now, as for being on or in the ground for "a couple of years", or better still for 100 years or more, that's usually going to be fine because the copper and silver coins are not going to decay, but ferrous objects stand a greater chance to decay and that results in them being a physically smaller-size object and that means a bit less negative influence on the EMF than when they were initially lost. Note that I underscored 'usually' and for a very good reason, but that gets into a different topic of discussion.


Quote
Kickindirt
Hell id love to see one just buried at 4" in some fairly mineralized ground and see how that changes things.

It would change it very little compered to simply increasing the coil height over the NBPT from that position that produces, let's say, 8-out-of-8 good hits. It's no different from going out and working any hunt site and getting a good hit on a non-ferrous target that is close to one-or-more Nails or other pieces of ferrous metal. You can use any detector and coil you like, such as a Deus w/9" round DD, and find a challenging target. One that is located close to some Nails or other ferrous debris.

Note the coil position when you first encounter and hear the desirable hit. Stop, raise the search coil an additional 4" or 5" or 6' and sweep across the target once again with the center-axis of the coil and note the audio response. I'll guarantee you are going to notice some targets will not give a good response, or possibly there will be more audio 'mix' from the blended ferrous and non-ferrous objects, or you might just get a bad Iron Audio report.

In the case of the NBPT, it is what it is. A natural encounter of same-plane multiple targets. For best performance you would sweep most coils at a 'proper' coil height which would be ±2 off the ground. Some models might overload and you would need to raise the coil, or some might not and would even allow a closer coil-to-target orientation to give the best responses. But as the search coil is raised away from the NBPT the EMF is no longer a tight field but a broader and more open field, and that's going to have a negative impact of trying to separate the good coin target from the surrounding negative ferrous objects. Buried would do the same thing.

I could give 10 people each 4 Iron Nails of the same size as on the Nail Board, and 1 Zinc Cent, then tell each of them to go bury their 4 Nails and 1 Cent in some fashion within an 8½" X 11" grid at whatever position they desired and have all of them at whatever depth they wanted down to 4".

Then you and Gregg an Rich and Del and Roger and Dan and me and whoever else was around to make 10 people could then use whatever detector and coil and settings we wanted and 'Test' each one of the 10 unknown burial sites to try and find 10 1¢ Coins. No doubt some will not do all that well, some might do fair, and in the end likely no one will get a dig-worthy signal on all 10 Pennies and .... someone might just say it is a flawed Test. It isn't. It is simple a 'Test' just like my NBPT, just a different Test. In all 'Tests' we do, and in all cases of going out hunting a variety of sites and finding the unknown and unseen wherever it might be and mixed in with whatever we don't know about ,.... is still 'A Test' because it is something we learn from.

In the end I do know a few things for sure. I DO have some detectors and coils that DO very well on the NBPT and they are often the units I assign for 'special duty' hunting sites that pose such a challenge. And I also have detectors and coils that work great for typical urban Coin & Jewelry Hunting locations and provide me the quick response-and-recovery to help handle a lot of closely associated coins and jewelry and modern trash. I have my two favorites for taking on the often plentiful tot-lots, too. And in all cases, I not only know what they can do, but I like using them and I have 'fun' so the odds are in my favor to have an enjoyable day afield. And with a bit of good luck I might even make a good find or two.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detector Outfit: A selection of my favorite makes and models, with the best coils mounted, for the tasks I'll take on.
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*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

Comparison Tests ... They can be interesting, and here's a 're-test' I'm doing.

Monte 108 November 16, 2020 05:54AM

A report of a lot of detectors using their 'standard' search coil.

Monte 72 November 19, 2020 07:46AM

Any Thoughts of tossing some Rusty Tin in the Mix ?

UtahRich 41 November 19, 2020 04:34PM

Rusty Tin? Yes, it's on the agenda.

Monte 48 November 19, 2020 05:15PM

Rusty Tin - the bane of the ghost towns.

UtahRich 27 November 20, 2020 01:48AM

Rich, my thoughts regarding your thoughts.thinking

Monte 29 November 20, 2020 05:40AM

Re: Rusty Tin? Yes, it's on the agenda. Attachments

Kickindirt 40 November 19, 2020 11:00PM

No, I'm not kidding, if you read what I said or implied.

Monte 30 November 20, 2020 04:08AM

Re: No, I'm not kidding <--- lol where's your sense of humor

OregonGregg 32 November 20, 2020 12:57PM

Where's your sense of individuality ?

UtahRich 29 November 20, 2020 04:15PM

Re: Where's your sense of individuality ?

OregonGregg 30 November 20, 2020 04:53PM

Exactly! Confront it, learn it and YOUR detectors, and the future will be brighter. N/T

Monte 20 November 20, 2020 08:08PM

Sending you a PM - winking smiley N/T

UtahRich 17 November 20, 2020 06:25PM

Well Thank ya....sent you one to. N/T

OregonGregg 17 November 20, 2020 07:00PM

Still busy testing, but will have two upcoming comparisons.

Monte 50 November 17, 2020 02:02PM

Re: Still busy testing, but will have two upcoming comparisons.

D&P-OR 51 November 17, 2020 03:22PM

OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

OregonGregg 67 November 16, 2020 08:09AM

Gregg, I think you forgot .....

Monte 68 November 16, 2020 01:31PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 63 November 16, 2020 12:46PM

What's going to happen with the M6 ?

UtahRich 68 November 16, 2020 06:59PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

OregonGregg 70 November 16, 2020 07:09PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

EL NINO 46 November 17, 2020 06:13AM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

OregonGregg 47 November 17, 2020 07:49AM

Handle angle

SvenS 35 November 17, 2020 05:56PM

Re: Handle angle

OregonGregg 29 November 17, 2020 06:33PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

Kickindirt 37 November 17, 2020 01:39PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

OregonGregg 25 November 17, 2020 02:33PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

Kickindirt 35 November 17, 2020 04:19PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

D&P-OR 39 November 17, 2020 05:29PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

Kickindirt 27 November 17, 2020 06:05PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

D&P-OR 31 November 17, 2020 07:18PM

Re: ya Del

Kickindirt 23 November 17, 2020 09:00PM

I just checked NOAA, and 32° at 12:56 in the afternoon it isn't likely Gregg will head your way.

Monte 33 November 17, 2020 02:15PM

Re: I just checked NOAA, and 32° at 12:56 in the afternoon it isn't likely Gregg will head your way.

OregonGregg 30 November 17, 2020 02:37PM

Re: I just checked NOAA, and 32° at 12:56 in the afternoon it isn't likely Gregg will head your way.

D&P-OR 37 November 17, 2020 03:08PM

Did I read this correctly? Meet at Del & Patsy's for a winter long hunt ?

UtahRich 22 November 18, 2020 09:42PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

D&P-OR 38 November 17, 2020 01:45PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

OregonGregg 31 November 17, 2020 02:34PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

Kickindirt 74 November 16, 2020 08:53PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

OregonGregg 54 November 16, 2020 09:23PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

Kickindirt 50 November 16, 2020 10:23PM

Here ya go

OregonGregg 50 November 16, 2020 10:42PM

That's not the response I expected . . . . . thinking

UtahRich 49 November 16, 2020 09:10PM

Re: That's not the response I expected . . . . . thinking

D&P-OR 49 November 16, 2020 09:25PM

So is Patsy there too ?

UtahRich 44 November 16, 2020 09:30PM

Re: So is Patsy there too ?

D&P-OR 44 November 16, 2020 09:42PM

Dinner Bell

UtahRich 43 November 16, 2020 09:44PM

confused smiley

UtahRich 48 November 16, 2020 08:32PM

The M6 - We need some clarification with your results.

UtahRich 57 November 16, 2020 07:14PM

Re: The M6 - We need some clarification with your results.

OregonGregg 58 November 16, 2020 08:11PM

OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

UtahRich 50 November 16, 2020 10:38AM

Rich, a few comments back to you.

Monte 66 November 16, 2020 01:21PM

What's Your Detector IQ ?

UtahRich 46 November 16, 2020 07:40PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 46 November 16, 2020 12:17PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

Druid 38 November 16, 2020 11:28PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 38 November 17, 2020 05:46AM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

Druid 22 November 18, 2020 12:00PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 25 November 18, 2020 02:54PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 29 November 18, 2020 01:39PM

This machine looks familiar

zincoln 20 November 18, 2020 04:05PM

Re: This machine looks familiar

EL NINO 26 November 18, 2020 08:45PM

Thx for sharing

zincoln 20 November 18, 2020 10:44PM

Re: Thx for sharing

EL NINO 23 November 19, 2020 03:35AM

Setting Up Tests for your own detectors -

UtahRich 49 November 16, 2020 07:30PM

Agree 100%

OregonGregg 43 November 16, 2020 11:08AM

Customizing a Test -

UtahRich 50 November 16, 2020 06:52PM

Re: Agree 100%

Kickindirt 55 November 16, 2020 05:57PM

Joel, just some responses to your thoughts.

Monte 26 November 17, 2020 09:26PM



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