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Rich, my thoughts regarding your thoughts.thinking

November 20, 2020 05:40AM avatar
Quote
UtahRich
Hey Monte,

We have to start somewhere, right?

Right, and once we set foot out of our vehicle in so many old-use locations we are getting a 'new start' at taking on 'rusty tin.' Some are not too bad, some are really tough, and I learned long ago, especially out in 'Twin Flats' Utah, how much of a challenge 'rusty tin' can be .... and learned along the way how to deal with it. Next trip there or to any comparable old site, I'll open the door, step out, grab my detector and coil and .... continue learning.


Quote
UtahRich
I'm ok if you want to swap out the 4 iron nails for 4 pieces of old rusty tin from LoneTree or that general neighborhood. But, I think 4 pieces of rusty tin are going to be too much for any detector, but maybe I'm wrong. I've not thought of doing a tin test before which is why I'm now interested.

It's a thought, however:

• What size and condition of 'rusty tin'?
• Put them in the 'middle' of where a Nail would be or toward the Nail Head or Nail Point? Just a bit this way or that will make a difference.

4 pieces of 'rusty tin' can overwhelm a detector & coil, or just 1 piece of 'rusty tin' can do it. So many variables out there in the size and type of 'tin' coupled with how close to or the orientation of desired targets, and those can also be tough based on their size and conductivity level. That's one of the reasons I started developing a detector 'Team' of two or more detectors by '71 / '72. Even way back then, before we had Discrimination or Ground Balance or motion-based Discrimination or Target ID or Tone ID, we still had some differences in detectors. Different circuitry designs, different operating principles, different search coil sizes and types, and in a few years we started to see those new features along with more variance in Operating Frequencies.

I remember May 4th of '69, my first ever ghost town hunt in 'Twin Flats', and frequent return trips over the following eight years sure helped me experience the changes in detectors, in coils, and in performance to tackle the dreaded Iron Nails and .... 'Rusty Tin.' One reason I have some 'Special-Use Team' of detectors as some do a better job in those environments ... as do some of my 'Daily-Use Team' should I encounter annoyance afield.


Quote
UtahRich
I was kinda thinking along the lines of a rusty flattened disintegrating tin can and see how close i can place a good target and have the detector separate it from the rusty tin. And maybe something along the lines of the 8 directions you use on the NBT. ???

It would be nice to have some sort of a uniform, consistent 'rusty tin' and good target test, but I'm not holding out hopes to achieve that, but who knows. And yes, using the multi-directions of sweep approach and departure would naturally be an important ingredient in evaluating a detector & coil's performance.


Quote
UtahRich
And I'm not expecting you to create some sort of RTT (rusty tin test) to go along with the NBT. Just interested to see how your squadron of $550 > detectors do with handling rusty tin with a good target right by it.

I have my favorite two Tesoro's in my personal outfit and used them in the above 'Tests.' They work quite well and have rewarded m in many old ferrous-littered sites. However, they are not the best Iron Unmasker that came out of Tesoro as I discovered back in I believe '98 at a club Competition Hunt. Yes, a planted, two-day multi-hunt event that was held at a county fairgrounds. They hadn't prepped the area we had reserved for the hunt but had just plowed up another big area we were welcome to go grid-off and get planted.

I wanted to enjoy the hunt myself because there was a LOT of coins, especially an ample amount of Silver Dimes and Quarters, to be planted. I was not involved in any of the hunt field planting other than giving the seeding crews some basic instructions on how to plant and what not to do. Then I was busy at the club prize booth, and that means I wasn't planting and learning about the plowed and ready hunt site. The Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX were introduced in October of '97 and at the next year's hunt I had a Troy Custom Shadow X2 that was derived from modifying the Silver Sabre µMAX. Same basic circuitry, and quite a few other contestants were using the Shadow X2 or a Silver Sabre µMAX. I used the Super 7 Inch Shadow coil but most contestants used that or a Tesoro 8" Concentric coil that was standard on the Silver Sabre µMAX.

The first hunt got underway and I quickly noticed I had some issues, and in the coarse of the hunt heard complaints from others using those two models. The problem was the plowed up area was part of a Destruction Derby they held at the annual fairs. Worse yet, in the first hunt field, we were told later by the maintenance folks, is also where they use to dump some junk. The 'seeders' were instructed to put the coins just out-of-site and not deep, and keep them relatively flat-to-the surface.

One of the 'planted' coins ended up getting scuffed around with some debris as everyone scurried about and you could eyeball more than half of an Indian Head Penny sticking out from under a ferrous metal bracket that was 'L' shaped. The gal who spotted it said her detector wouldn't respond to the Indian Head. I also had a Shadow X2 w/7" Concentric in-hand and ... it didn't respond for me, either. We were both at the minimum ED-120 Disc. setting and nothing from the penny. It was a little more than half espoused, maybe about ⅔ showing.

Now, I like the two Tesoro's I own and use, often, mainly because they get a little better depth than the former models due to their new Low-Noise / High-Gain circuitry, and a stronger audio response as well. Perfect for most of the places I want to use them, and they do pretty well in a lot of Iron Nail contaminated sites, but .... Nothing is perfect. This particular example showed that and I asked her to stand there while I darted to my vehicle. I switched detectors and came back with another trusted friend that had also served me well, and it also had a 7" Concentric coil. It was my Bandido II, the earlier 2nd Bandido series model made, but didn't have quite the depth, nor did it have the Low-Noise / High-Gain circuitry. Minimum Disc., and ... 'Beep!' Same ferrous-masked Indian Head Cent, same size and type coil, almost the same Frequency, just different circuitry design.

The hunts continued, and now I used my Bandido II and she switched to her Silver Sabre II with similar circuitry and improved performance for any planted coins that were too close to all of the discarded small ferrous debris.


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UtahRich
As for good targets, let's say a Shield nickel, $2 1/2 gold piece, IHC, Seated Dime, Seated Quarter. Seated Half. And maybe try a few different sizes of rusty tin.

Great ideas. It would be more of a 'learning exercise' for you and anyone else present to check out a particular set-up. Difficult to duplicet for anyone elsewhere.


Quote
UtahRich
Now that I'm typing this, I just might go out and see if I can round up some rusty tin myself. The old UPRR is just a couple miles away from the house Giving me some ideas. . . .

A great way to use up some of the down-time wintry months by doing-and-learning. thumbs up Good luck looking for some 'rusty tin' samples.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Daily-Use Team: F5 w/7" Con. .. Apex w/5X8 DD .. Apex w/NEL 5" DD .. Vanquish 540 w/5X8 DD
Simplex + w/5X9½ DD .. Silver Sabre µMAX w/6" Con.
Special-Use Team: CoRe w/'OOR' DD .. Relic w/5" DD .. XLT w/6½" Con. .. Bandido II µMAX w/6" Con.
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive & ProPointer AT .. Headphones: 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' .. MS-3 Z-Lynk .. ML-80 .. N/M Green edition
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

Comparison Tests ... They can be interesting, and here's a 're-test' I'm doing.

Monte 107 November 16, 2020 05:54AM

A report of a lot of detectors using their 'standard' search coil.

Monte 68 November 19, 2020 07:46AM

Any Thoughts of tossing some Rusty Tin in the Mix ?

UtahRich 41 November 19, 2020 04:34PM

Rusty Tin? Yes, it's on the agenda.

Monte 46 November 19, 2020 05:15PM

Rusty Tin - the bane of the ghost towns.

UtahRich 27 November 20, 2020 01:48AM

Rich, my thoughts regarding your thoughts.thinking

Monte 28 November 20, 2020 05:40AM

Re: Rusty Tin? Yes, it's on the agenda. Attachments

Kickindirt 39 November 19, 2020 11:00PM

No, I'm not kidding, if you read what I said or implied.

Monte 30 November 20, 2020 04:08AM

Re: No, I'm not kidding <--- lol where's your sense of humor

OregonGregg 32 November 20, 2020 12:57PM

Where's your sense of individuality ?

UtahRich 29 November 20, 2020 04:15PM

Re: Where's your sense of individuality ?

OregonGregg 29 November 20, 2020 04:53PM

Exactly! Confront it, learn it and YOUR detectors, and the future will be brighter. N/T

Monte 18 November 20, 2020 08:08PM

Sending you a PM - winking smiley N/T

UtahRich 17 November 20, 2020 06:25PM

Well Thank ya....sent you one to. N/T

OregonGregg 17 November 20, 2020 07:00PM

Still busy testing, but will have two upcoming comparisons.

Monte 46 November 17, 2020 02:02PM

Re: Still busy testing, but will have two upcoming comparisons.

D&P-OR 44 November 17, 2020 03:22PM

OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

OregonGregg 61 November 16, 2020 08:09AM

Gregg, I think you forgot .....

Monte 66 November 16, 2020 01:31PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 61 November 16, 2020 12:46PM

What's going to happen with the M6 ?

UtahRich 67 November 16, 2020 06:59PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

OregonGregg 69 November 16, 2020 07:09PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

EL NINO 46 November 17, 2020 06:13AM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

OregonGregg 45 November 17, 2020 07:49AM

Handle angle

SvenS 34 November 17, 2020 05:56PM

Re: Handle angle

OregonGregg 29 November 17, 2020 06:33PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

Kickindirt 36 November 17, 2020 01:39PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

OregonGregg 25 November 17, 2020 02:33PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

Kickindirt 34 November 17, 2020 04:19PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

D&P-OR 37 November 17, 2020 05:29PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

Kickindirt 27 November 17, 2020 06:05PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

D&P-OR 30 November 17, 2020 07:18PM

Re: ya Del

Kickindirt 23 November 17, 2020 09:00PM

I just checked NOAA, and 32° at 12:56 in the afternoon it isn't likely Gregg will head your way.

Monte 31 November 17, 2020 02:15PM

Re: I just checked NOAA, and 32° at 12:56 in the afternoon it isn't likely Gregg will head your way.

OregonGregg 30 November 17, 2020 02:37PM

Re: I just checked NOAA, and 32° at 12:56 in the afternoon it isn't likely Gregg will head your way.

D&P-OR 35 November 17, 2020 03:08PM

Did I read this correctly? Meet at Del & Patsy's for a winter long hunt ?

UtahRich 21 November 18, 2020 09:42PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

D&P-OR 36 November 17, 2020 01:45PM

Re: Come on down Gregg!!

OregonGregg 30 November 17, 2020 02:34PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

Kickindirt 73 November 16, 2020 08:53PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

OregonGregg 54 November 16, 2020 09:23PM

Re: What's going to happen with the M6 ?

Kickindirt 49 November 16, 2020 10:23PM

Here ya go

OregonGregg 50 November 16, 2020 10:42PM

That's not the response I expected . . . . . thinking

UtahRich 49 November 16, 2020 09:10PM

Re: That's not the response I expected . . . . . thinking

D&P-OR 47 November 16, 2020 09:25PM

So is Patsy there too ?

UtahRich 44 November 16, 2020 09:30PM

Re: So is Patsy there too ?

D&P-OR 41 November 16, 2020 09:42PM

Dinner Bell

UtahRich 43 November 16, 2020 09:44PM

confused smiley

UtahRich 48 November 16, 2020 08:32PM

The M6 - We need some clarification with your results.

UtahRich 56 November 16, 2020 07:14PM

Re: The M6 - We need some clarification with your results.

OregonGregg 57 November 16, 2020 08:11PM

OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

UtahRich 50 November 16, 2020 10:38AM

Rich, a few comments back to you.

Monte 65 November 16, 2020 01:21PM

What's Your Detector IQ ?

UtahRich 46 November 16, 2020 07:40PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 44 November 16, 2020 12:17PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

Druid 38 November 16, 2020 11:28PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 37 November 17, 2020 05:46AM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

Druid 21 November 18, 2020 12:00PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 24 November 18, 2020 02:54PM

Re: OregonGregg being a pain in the behind again sad smiley

EL NINO 28 November 18, 2020 01:39PM

This machine looks familiar

zincoln 20 November 18, 2020 04:05PM

Re: This machine looks familiar

EL NINO 24 November 18, 2020 08:45PM

Thx for sharing

zincoln 19 November 18, 2020 10:44PM

Re: Thx for sharing

EL NINO 23 November 19, 2020 03:35AM

Setting Up Tests for your own detectors -

UtahRich 48 November 16, 2020 07:30PM

Agree 100%

OregonGregg 43 November 16, 2020 11:08AM

Customizing a Test -

UtahRich 50 November 16, 2020 06:52PM

Re: Agree 100%

Kickindirt 54 November 16, 2020 05:57PM

Joel, just some responses to your thoughts.

Monte 26 November 17, 2020 09:26PM



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