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Silver Stack or Coin Jar - It's **somewhat similar** results.

December 11, 2020 07:28PM avatar
Quote
UtahRich
Many of you have tried Monte's Silver Dollar coin stack test on your detectors and a few have been surprised when the combination of all those big silver coins (all touching) drives the signal up and over the top and round the other side. (iron).

You think so? All that "Iron Wrap" chatter has been around ever since we started getting to more digital detectors, and more models that have internal settings, or software that limits an adjustment range, and that results in some bad behavior. It also results in a lot of people making a descriptive statement, such as 'Iron Wrap', that other folks read and figure it must be correct because somebody else said so. In reality, that's not really what's happening.

Something under YOUR control or under the DETECTOR'S control is causing that errant behavior. Either you mis-adjusted a setting or two (or more) or the circuitry design is making use of an errant setting, or more. In that case, it was either an internal 'preset' using a trimmer, for a mechanical adjustment, or it was done 'in-software' or 'in-circuitry', and that then leaves a question or two, such as: Is the circuitry design a 'fixed' setting, or is it somewhat 'regulated' so as to cover only a specific range of what it is supposed to do?

Rich, if you still have a Tesoro Bandido, Bandido II or Bandido II ┬ÁMAX, and you have a few minutes to gather up a Bandido model, your Vanquish 540, whatever other model you want, then also get this: 1-Dime, 1-Quarter, 1-Half-Dollar, 1-Silver Dollar, and a 'short-stack' similar to mine w/5 Silver Halves on top of a Silver Dollar. Grab that jar or two also, ... without the lid.winking smiley Then, once you have all of your detectors and test samples at the ready and laid out on your metal-free basement floor .... Give me a phone call. I won't be handling the detectors so nothing up my sleeve, I'll just give some instructions while you handle the detectors and school will be in session. It will likely be a short class and you'll have recess, but it's too cold to go out and play.

Things to learn: There is no "Iron Wrap."

And then an explanation of what causes the bad behavior of some makes and models.

And before I forget, Yes, I know that some mixture of causes, such as ground mineralization or targets depth or target angle, or sometimes another nearby target influence, etc., etc., can cause a target to 'Up-Average' or to 'Down-Average' .... but that is different from what many relate to as being Iron Wrap.


Quote
UtahRich
I heard many thoughts that it isn't likely to come upon a 'stack' of large silver coins in the ground while you're out detecting . . . . Ok. I can kinda agree with that, to a point.

Large silver coins can be 'stacked' in a hiding spot within a house / outbuilding. Often, an emergency fund 'stash' is not a large amount of coins, but it is coins of significant value. Dollars, Halves and even Quarters. Pennies and Nickels were for candy, a drink, and so forth.

A 'cache' would represent a lager amount or hoard of money in a bigger container(s) and often hidden outdoors by burying in an orchard, near or in a barn or other structure, like a hen house, and in specific areas like a 'post hole' or under a wood pile, etc. People used to live far from a town with a bank, if there was one there, or they didn't trust banks. With WW-I and then the Depressions Era, there were quite a few people who didn't trust banks and they often had a 'stash' or two around their home, and some had a 'cache', or multiple 'caches' . It seems like it was usually a Dad, an Uncle or a Granddad who had secreted the money.

From what I could piece together when families shared their stories when they contracted me to search for a 'cache' on their property, the family story was that the money was buried somewhere between 1920 and 1940, and the person was older and passed away sometime in the 1950's or '60's. Most stated that the hidden money was mostly silver coins, with an emphasis on Dollars and Halves. Not paper money because they didn't trust it. I was contracted for some 'Cache Hunting' tasks mainly in the '70s and to late '80s. The number of people trying to track down a cache dwindled during the '90s, but I have always been compelled to 'be ready' just in case I stumbled on some unknown hoard .... large or small. I haven't found any larger ones on my own.


Quote
UtahRich
Well, some of you know that I recently acquired a very lightly used Vanquish 540 Pro Pack. While messing around with it in the basement last week testing responses over a handful of targets on the floor in the different modes with the smaller 5x8 coil, I happened to pass by a BIG jar of copper cents that I've been accumulating over the years. Iron Grunt. Hmmm. that was a strange response; target ID was -3, -4. I moved the BIG jar out away from the wall and any possible interfering metal, into the middle of the floor. Same result. No denying it.

Settings -
Mode - Jewelry
Wireless Headphones - On
Sensitivity - Max
Disc - Accepting 1-40
U (horseshoe) - On (also accepting -9 to 0 )
Iron Bias - High (default)

I expected that result. I will talk with you about the 'Horseshoe' button to access All Metal Accept in the Disc. mode on the Vanquish and the glitch in their GB behavior.


Quote
UtahRich
Now, while many might think it less likely to find a stack of large silver coins (cache), how about something more simple like a small jar of coins? I have a small glass peanut butter jar of various clad coins found this year (copper cents / nickels / dimes / quarters ) and it wasn't very full, and nearly the same result (with the metal lid off); -7, -8. If I wasn't accepting the iron end (-9 to 0), I would have MISSED this target completely.

When ever these things occur and the results are not what you expect, you need to always ask Wyatt and try to get a correct answer. Who's Wyatt?

Just ask: Wyatt Did That or Wyatt Didn't.


Quote
UtahRich
While my Vanquish settings are similar to my Equinox settings, there are some things that aren't the same. One is the iron bias. I usually keep the iron bias on my equinox quite low to help with unmasking non-ferrous targets from nearby ferrous.

And with the V-540 I sometimes use the Low Iron-Bias if a site is not too heavily littered with Iron Nails, Bolts, and other ferrous debris. The Low Iron-Bias is going to produce better 'good signals' on undesired ferrous junk.


Quote
UtahRich
So i held in the 'U' Horseshoe button to switch my iron bias to low and voila - my targets reappeared. Instead of the BIG jar of copper cents reading -3, -4, they now come up 15,16. And the small jar of clad coins is no longer -7, -8, it is 20, 21.

Brings up more questions to be answered.


Quote
UtahRich
Now here's another worry saving thought that I had. The Lid. How many times have I recovered the lid to an old bottle AND HOPED there was a jar beneath it full of coins? Many times. There is always that.

Always be prepared for the once-in-a-lifetime surprise!


Quote
UtahRich
I wouldn't expect trouble with 4 silver quarters. Or even a couple of silver halves or a pair of silver dollars. If you have a small glass or plastic jar, place about 20-30 coins in it and try again.

You wouldn't? If you know what causes the problems, then you can be prepared for just how terrible it can be. When we can talk and you have the detectors and sample coins, you'll see.


Quote
UtahRich
I got out the Deus and went over the small coin jar and large penny jar using my 9" x35 coils and all 15 programs, including the 10 factory programs and my additions. All signals were positive in the high coin range for both targets. This is good. thumbs up The large jar o of only copper cents did read a few ID points below (88, 89) the smaller jar of clad quarters, dimes and nickels higher at 91, 92.

I have target ID equalization on.

Not surprised that you got good responses, but then I don't know the frequencies and settings used. That can make a difference. Of course there is a bigger difference in the simple fact that you are comparing two totally different circuitry designs and the principles of how the design engineers went about making each model.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detector Outfit: A selection of my favorite makes and models, with the best coils mounted, for the tasks I'll take on.
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*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2020 04:40AM by Monte.
Subject Author Views Posted

Silver Stack or Coin Jar - It's the same results.

UtahRich 106 December 10, 2020 11:42PM

Confirmed myself

zincoln 60 December 13, 2020 08:23PM

I could have told you it would, just like the ...

Monte 67 December 13, 2020 11:52PM

Silver Stack or Coin Jar - It's **somewhat similar** results.

Monte 58 December 11, 2020 07:28PM

It's **somewhat similar** results.

UtahRich 41 December 11, 2020 08:05PM

From the Oregon Department of Corrections -

UtahRich 51 December 11, 2020 06:38PM

Don't be bias............

OregonGregg 51 December 11, 2020 09:22AM

Re: Don't be bias............

Kickindirt 48 December 11, 2020 02:28PM

Re: Silver Stack

Remfire 50 December 11, 2020 12:10AM

Coin Jar - other 540 modes / EQ 800

UtahRich 49 December 11, 2020 03:48PM

"Anyway, kinda fun messing around with settings." ...thumbs up Yep, that's how we learn.. N/T

Monte 38 December 11, 2020 07:32PM

Deus goes 100%

UtahRich 53 December 11, 2020 01:57AM

Silver Stack - Attachments

UtahRich 55 December 11, 2020 12:14AM

Re: Silver Stack -

Remfire 41 December 11, 2020 12:21AM



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