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Back to you, Joel.

April 04, 2020 09:52AM avatar
Quote
Kickindirt
Yes I do. I wasn't saying i scrub my coil. Simply saying I could in comparison to the factory coils.
Now I understand what you meant. Thanks.


Quote
Kickindirt
I figured you might say that. Testing the nel 9x5 against orher factory 9x5 coils i gained 2" of depth in air tests and in field observations seem to prove same. Also seemed to have better separation.
I did compare a NEL Sharpshooter on one competitor's model against their own 5X9½-ish DD and the Sharpshooter was better, but on some different brands it didn't impress me much.

I have the Nokta 5X9½ DD for my FORS Relic and I keep their 5X9½ DD mounted on my 2nd FORS CoRe. I haven't compared it side-by-side with a Sharpshooter, but I have compared it side-by-side with the XP ORX w/5X9½ DD. The 15 kHz CoRe in 3-Tone w/Sensitivity at '99' and Disc. at '10' with a Ferrous break-point of '40,' and the ORX at a very close 14.4 kHz is 3-Tone w/Sensitivity at '99' and Reactivity at '2' and Disc. at '7', the Nokta Core is the winner in detection depth. If I go to 2-Tone and Sensitivity saved at '95' it does even better then the XP ORX.

From experiences I've had enjoying the CoRe and Relic I was just figuring the other, newer models with a comparable coil might provide performance like the Core and Relic. Two of the better models Nokta has ever made ... but I might be a bit biased.


Quote
Kickindirt
Yes I know and I agree Monte. Only thing is I've already been down this road with the racer2s. You should call Ryan K and ask him about his racer2s. Brand new out of the box he had a couple racer2s that was absolute nightmare to swing at out old sites. Worst part about it the little 5" Nokta/Makro coils are the worst ones. I tried his machines with 5" oor coil and you couldn't get 6" from the ground without a overload at a sensitivity of 30. He sold it asap.
Believe me, and Gregg can verify this, I have had a Love / Hate relationship with the Racer 2. Four years ago I had the pre-production prototype and I found a lot of good stuff with it, but I preferred my CoRe and the Relic that was also just being released. I hunted all those old, iron contaminated sites in Nevada and many here in Oregon, Utah, Wyoming and Idaho and I liked the Racer 2 .... until some little things annoyed me and I didn't like it. I sold / traded that Racer 2 and a few others I bought with Gregg or I sold them elsewhere, only to acquire another.

Just this past October, if I recall, I bought a brand new Racer 2 from Gregg and then I ordered a new Racer 2 Pro Pack from you so I could get the excellent Pulse-Dive Pinpointer.thumbs up What little wintry time I had, I spent using other detectors, and Gregg bought the new upper-rod w/display and battery/speaker housing to add to his 'arsenal'. Then, with about 1-1½ hours use on the other new Racer 2, I sold it last month to Vic for a tremendous deal. Racer 2 w/stock coil and extra new stock coil and unused 5" DD and hardly-used 'OOR' DD and 7" Concentric and the detector bag, environmental covers and an extra brand new set of environmental covers, and detector stand and whatever else I could find to include with it. All for a definite bargain price!

I can't think of any single detector model, in 55 years of detecting, that I would like a lot yet get irritated by at times and sell it or trade it away. I figured I was finished and had washed my hands of the Racer 2. After I made the deal with Vic and sent it off I already kind of missed it by the time I drove home from the Post Office. I liked it better than most of the other detectors in my Outfit for many uses, but I also knew it fell short of the performance I get from my Core and Relic in the really tough Iron Nail and other ferrous-challenged sites we hunt. By the time I pulled into my driveway I was back at ease and satisfied I'd get over it and knew Vic had an excellent detector on the way to him.

Okay, now I got that off my chest and I know what you're getting at. But for me it wasn't the touchy Overload, even though I use maximum Sensitivities most of the time because I can live with its high-gain behavior. It was a couple of other things. I have a full Outfit of detectors and I even bought the brand new Impact from you with the extra 5" and 7" coils to fill that void because I know what the Impact can do. I have now put in 1 hour and 10 minutes of detecting with the new Impact and 7" Concentric coil only.

I really like that detector, however, I have plenty of models to do what I need and I am making two changes to my already trimmed-down detector Outfit. I am going to list this brand new Impact 'package' with the two extra search coils because as much as I like it, I just don't need it. All I need is a good detector to keep in my vehicle to join my V-540 and Silver Sabre µMAX as a 'daily travel' detector, and I want to have a 7" Concentric coil mounted on it. I don't want that to be the Impact so it's going up for sale with less than an hour-and-a-half of pampered use.

Tuesday morning I'll be picking up a used Racer 2 package from Dan'o, and this time I don't plan to let it go. I'll get a 7" Concentric coil mounted for regular daily travel use and just have to get along with any of the little quirks I know they can have.


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Kickindirt
3 tone instead 2 allows me to I guess use my ears to better discriminate signals without having to look down and see what area or range the vdi is showing up. Also it just helps separate out the tones. Instead like comparing a busy site to the 2 tone settings where it will be hitting and calling everything a good signal forcing me to use the vdi more. Also cause 2 tone will be categorizing a larger scale of targets as the same tone. Another good reason to use 3 tone is because that had been my go to choice and am more familiar with it and have a system that seems to work good for me. I chose zero disc cause it allows me to hear the ground better. If I move into a heavy iron patch i can hear it easily and know to slow my swing speed down and swing at different angles to try and get between the iron.
All of my Nokta and Makro detectors have their settings 'saved' so they turn-on in the 3-Tone mode with the exception of the Simplex +. I have it ready to turn-on in the Beach mode. I like the 3-Tone mode on all these models or using the smaller-size coils when hunting in the old sites with a loot of mixed debris to deal with. That said, I seldom make use of the visual VDI read-out because the amount of trash that is so close to a desirable find will mask the proper target reading due to the blended-target results. Just use the Nail Board as n example. Put an Indian Head Cent in the #1 position and sweep completely across the board from all four directions going from the left and from the right and you're not apt to get a very clean-sounding audio ID from the coin, nor will there be a 'proper' visual TID.

I like the 3-Tone audio mode more than a busier multi-tone response. But you had mentioned hunting in Iron Nails, and when a site has mainly Iron nails to deal with, the 2-Tone audio response is much more telling than the processed 3-Tone mode. Again, just use the Nail Board and sweep all routes with any coil in 3-Tone and listen for a good quality audio response, then switch to 2-Tone and do it again. The 3-Tone mode is great, but the 2-Tone mode stands out so much better. I go by Audio response more than Visual response, especially in the really dense Iron Nail contaminated places.


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Kickindirt
Setting my lowest tone break at 22 allows me to keep my break point well below the nickel range to obtain clean audio responses for those targets that fall close to the nickel range. I have found that running break points to close to the nickel range causes jumpy audio tones in the heavy trash. Example being if I had my break point set at 22 and small rings were coming in at 25. in the high trash a beak point at 22 might might be to close and cause broken audio. Mainly being cause by heavy trash and nails partially masking the ring at 25. Would make that signal sound even worse already and maybe miss it just because I set my break point to close. In a clean area this prob wouldn't be a issue. Hope that makes sense.
Yes, it kind of makes sense, and that's how I view the Discrimination setting. I like to keep it a reasonable distance from what I want to find. For example, I run my Disc. on most models that allow it so that I am just barely accepting Iron Nails, and that's tied in with where the Ferrous break-points are on the different detectors.

For example, the Nokta CoRe has a Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break point of '40' and I run the Disc. at '10' and that's the same with the original Racer. The Nokta Relic Ferrous break and Disc. settings are '20' and '5' and the Racer 2's are '10' and '3'. The Impact has some modes that break at '15' and others that break at '40' so the '40'-break mods are set similar to the CoRe and Racer of '40' and '10,', while the modes with a Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break of '15' is similar to the Kruzer or Multi-Kruzer or Anfibio Multi and those are '15' and a Disc. of '3.' All those Disc. setting are barely accepting most Iron Nails and I don't run them higher unless I want to just barley reject Iron nails.

To eliminate the good-target masking I govern it by the Disc. setting as described. On all my Nokta/ Makro detectors mentioned I have my Tone Break set for the Ferrous / Non-Ferrous break point. I don't want to run it up into the Non-Ferrous range to reassign smaller, thinner gold chains or other very low-conductive non-ferrous jewelry or things-of-interest to fall in the Low-Tone Audio I reserve for Iron Nails and other Ferrous debris. So that gets to be a personal thing for each of us.


Quote
Kickindirt
I'll prob just sell the anfibio and stick to my Deus/ORX machines that just run nice and smooth. DONT get me WRONG the I can take the anfibio to my old park and not have any of these issues and easily pick out good keepers all day long. Most of this overloading is cause by heavy iron contamination and and high mineralization and a bit of just simply being a high gain machine. Either way ya look at it shouldn't overload on a rifle casing the size of dime.
A dime-size cartridge case would be tiny like a .22 Long Rifle, etc. Otherwise, the smaller rifle casings we typically encounter around here are like the .44 Henry. Thy aren't larger, but depending on the detector design we have in-hand, those might sometimes cause an 'overload' if too close to the search coils. But typically it is just that ... too close. Matter-of-fact, during the evening I grabbed a beautiful condition .44 Henry cartridge case, not squished or damaged at all, and used it to compare the detectors I have here in my den. I used each model with different search coils I have mounted and all of them set to Accept Iron nails and with a Sensitivity setting of '95' to '99' or just full Sensitivity if not a numbered setting.

The ONLY models that gave me the Nokta / Makro 'Overload' audio response were the CoRe and Relic and Impact, and in 3-Tone I only got the 'Overload' audio with the Impact when the cartridge case as scrubbed on the bottom of the search coil. With the CoRe, Relic and Impact using the 'OOR' DD, 5" DD, 5X9½ DD and 7" Concentric, and in the more sensitive 2-Tone mode there was no 'Overload Audio' with the .44 Henry case in any orientation until it was 1" or closer to the coil, except for the Impact w/7" Concentric that gave an 'Overload Audio' at between 1" and 1½" when the cartridge case was as if laying sideways on the ground. it usually takes a larger-size object to trigger the 'Overload' response with most of the Nokta / Makro models.

Some other detectors out there on the market also have a design-in 'Overload Audio' such as the T2 or F75, etc. It's just something to be learned, but where the real understanding comes is know what constitutes an "Overload" and how the detectors response when they do, and THAT is what make a difference. I understand what causes an Overload and how to deal with it, and when you hear that 'Overload Audio' on a CoRe, relic, racer 2, Impact, Anfibio Multi, it simply alerts the operator that the search coil is too close to a metal targets and you should raise the search coils an inch or so, as needed, to get a better and 'proper' single-tone audio response for more accurate Audio ID and more accurate Visual ID I have talked to a number of people who have never used a detector with a dedicated 'Overload Audio' report and some of them find it annoying. Join the crowd I guess.

But my Minelab Vanquish 540's and XP ORX and Nokta / Makro Simplex + and Tesoro Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX and Fisher F44 also produce an 'Overload Audio' ... but it isn't the processed 'alarm' type sound you hear from the Racer 2 or Anfibio multi, etc. You'll hear it with your XP Deus that you obviously enjoy the most, and what is that 'Overload Audio' response? It is the static-sounding, blippity-pleepity, multi-tones you hear when the search coil is 'scrubbed' or worked too closely to a metal target, and the bigger the target the more of that falsing, annoying, noisy 'Overload Audio" you will hear.

Yet it is simply an alert to the operator that the coil and target are too close for proper Audio and Visual response and identity, and that 'alert' means you should raise the search coil just enough to be able to sweep across the metal targets and get a single audio response. that can produce a more accurate Visual and Audio response and read-out of you have a display..

Both types of 'Overload Audio' are cause by the same issue, and that is a metal object being too-close to the search coils and overloading the near-proximity EMF to the coil. The reason? Bad search coil sweep and presentation, and the correction, as most User Manuals alert us to is to keep the search coil ]2" off the ground and away from being too close to a metal object. Pretty simple to learn and understand, but I watch so many You Tube and other videos where you hear those multiple diddle-diddle-diddle responses as the work their coil back-and-forth and back-and-forth and .. on and on too many sweeps ... which alerts me th coil is too clos to the ground. Raise it up a little and make one or two sweeps to hear a single good audio hit each way and you'll have better target isolation and a more informative audio and visual response.

It was an 'Overload Audio' but so many people just haven't learned that is what it is to adjust the coil height a little to deal with it.

Anyway, I undrstand how the Alarm Tone for Overload Audio might annoy you, and it took me a while to adapt to it when I first had a model that featured it.

Now, let's all hope for improved weather, the departure of the annoying virus, and let's get out detecting!

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detectors: Apex --- Vanquish 540 --- CoRe, Relic & Simplex + --- Bandido II µMAX & Silver Sabre µMAX --- XLT & MX-7
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive & ProPointer AT .. Headphones: 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' ... MS-3 Z-Lynk ... ML-80
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/04/2020 09:53AM by Monte.
Subject Author Views Posted

Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!! Attachments

Kickindirt 276 April 01, 2020 04:27PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

Utah1971 105 April 12, 2020 05:37PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

OregonGregg 102 April 12, 2020 06:04PM

Congratulations for 1, 2 and 3.

Monte 143 April 03, 2020 09:41AM

Re: Congratulations for 1, 2 and 3.

Kickindirt 106 April 03, 2020 10:28PM

Back to you, Joel.

Monte 113 April 04, 2020 09:52AM

Re: Back to you, Joel.

Kickindirt 102 April 04, 2020 08:06PM

Joel, about the 'overload' audio issue.

Monte 108 April 04, 2020 11:59PM

Say what ??????

OregonGregg 130 April 03, 2020 01:23PM

Re: Say what ??????

jmaryt 105 April 04, 2020 10:42AM

Re: Say what ??????

OregonGregg 102 April 04, 2020 10:46AM

Just remember, I already know what it can do ....

Monte 128 April 03, 2020 02:48PM

Re: Just remember, I already know what it can do ....

OregonGregg 102 April 04, 2020 04:59AM

Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

UtahRich 132 April 02, 2020 08:20AM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

Kickindirt 120 April 02, 2020 10:53AM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

Elbert 136 April 01, 2020 05:47PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!! Ha ha El good point N/T

Kickindirt 122 April 01, 2020 10:01PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

D&P-OR 130 April 01, 2020 05:19PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!! And Nel coils

Kickindirt 118 April 01, 2020 10:01PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!! And Nel coils

D&P-OR 127 April 02, 2020 09:08AM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!! And Nel coils Del

Kickindirt 124 April 02, 2020 11:40AM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!! And Nel coils Del

D&P-OR 108 April 02, 2020 02:45PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

NWCindy 124 April 01, 2020 04:35PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

Kickindirt 110 April 01, 2020 04:54PM

Re: Relic hunting with the Anfibio Multi!!

OregonGregg 113 April 01, 2020 06:02PM



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