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Well, here are some Questions .. Thoughts .. Opinions and a little ????

April 08, 2020 07:56AM avatar
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UtahRich
1. Why Offer Single frequency at all if the Multi-frequency is all that and then some?

Because, there may come a day when EMI (electromagnetic interference) may impact my ability to hunt using the preferred multi-frequency mode. I can attempt to change to one of 5 single frequencies hopefully not impacted by the interference and still be able to hunt.
True. If using a Simultaneous Multi-Frequency and you encounter EMI you could opt to change to a Single Frequency to try and eliminate the interference. My only suggestion was that spmeone could sinply change to a different detector to deal with EMI.


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UtahRich
2. Wouldn't I be able to hunt if I had a selectable frequency detector like the Nokta/Makro Anfibio, XP Deus, and so forth that can be set to one of three frequencies? Yes, provided I can find a frequency that is not impacted by the interference. (same for the Equinox)
Correct, that would also be possible if you had an EMI free Selectabale Frequency.


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UtahRich
3. What does multi-frequency offer that my single frequency detectors don't?

The ability to analyze a target in a dirt matrix using multiple frequencies and COMPARE each frequencies response against the other frequency responses to better identify the target(s) under the coil to greater depths AND to better separate a possible target from the background signal of the dirt AND to better separate a possible target from other unwanted targets. Again, better identification of a possible target. You can't do this type of signal comparison with 1 frequency.
And here is where I can only partly agree from my experiences afield, but where I mostly disagree for a few reasons. In the latter '70s we moved to the so-called 4-Filter or faster-sweep detectors. In '82/'83 we had new models on the market that provided a slow-sweep capability and also a quicker response-and-recovery. The fast models couldn't be swept slowly and still perform, nor could the so-called 2-Filter slow-motion detectors be operated at a brisker pace, especially in more mineralized ground because they couldn't filter out the higher-mineralized ground signal to pass a target signal along.

Fast-motion provided better detection depth where it wasn't too trashy, and the slow-motion types provided a quicker-response to better handle dense trash and unmask better. In late '87 we got our first Vari-Filter, or so-called 3-Filter circuitry design, which was essentially a blend of the two earlier fast-motion and slow-motion designs, and that let us use almost any sweep speed, and they also handled higher mineralized ground better and provided very decent detection depth, yet could also be worked in a slow and methodical sweep technique to help isolate good targets in a lot of Iron and non-iron debris.

'In theory' ... some of what you said could-be or might-be true with some Simultaneous Multi-Frequency models, but sometimes 'theory' only works part way. The biggest problem is we see a manufacturer who makes a lot of claims that 'theory' might suggest could occur, but designed testing or a lot of in-the-field encounters don't hold water. Take any of the FBS models, of which you have owned and used a good deal. Minelab 'claimed' they worked on 28 Frequencies from 1.5 kHz to 100 kHz. And they would make a statement referring to how one frequency might analyze the target signals or the ground signals and possibly compare them and pass along the good target report while the Multi-Frequency design handled the ground signal or the trash signal .. or both.

Let's try this for the mighty Multi-Frequency models (Explorer series to include the E-Trac and CTX-3030) to prove what they can do and compare selected Frequency performance. Get a US 1¢ coin and several common nails, like maybe 3, 4, 5, 6, and place the coin on bare dirt and release the group of Iron Nails on top of the 1¢ coin. The Multi-Frequency, as you suggested, should COMPARE the Ground Signal, Trash Signal (which in this case is only Iron Nails and not a mix of ferrous and non-ferrous trash by the single coin) and the Good-Target signal and pass it along. AND, by their claim, the 28 Frequencies includes 100 kHz.

Let me grab one of those antiquated Garrett Master Hunter TR-Disc. models or a simple Compass one-knob Coin Hustler TR (No Discrimination) and sweep those 100 kHz models over the 1¢ coin with Iron Nails on top and you'll hear a good 'Beep' on the coin. Can the 28 Frequency Minelab do that? Nope. I have those two models in my Seminar Group just for demonstrations of where we've come from, where we are, and what we've lost along the way.

How about some comparisons with more modern Test Samples and we can include their latest two, the Equinox series and the Vanquish series and we can even compare performance with some newer Single-Frequency or Selectable-Frequency detectors. W can take my neat-looking, brassy-colored button-front w/o the Iron back-piece, and it has a train engine on the front and is almost exactly the diameter of a US Zinc 1¢. I lay it on the ground and place one 3½" Irion Nail on top of it. Then I ask anyone to sweep across this in-sight Test Sample going Crosswise and then Lengthwise with the Iron Nail. Do it from the left and from the right for a possible 4-Hits.

Wait a minute, you saw this just one year ago in April out in front of my house. You tried your Simultaneous Multi-Frequency Equinox 800 in the Multi-IQ mode and a variety of adjustment settings and used the 6" DD coil. And only got 2-out-of 4. Brian W. tried his Simultaneous Multi-Frequency White's V3i, even with the 6½" Concentric coil or any other coil and various settings in the Multi-Frequency function and he only managed 2-out-of-4 hits. Then he tried his Single-frequency White's MX Sport with 7" DD, to get 2-out-of-4, and Gregg grabbed a Makro Racer w/7" Concentric and also achieved only 2-out-of-4 good hits.

So, those Simultaneous Multi-Frequency detectors didn't do a very good job of 'COMPARING' ground and good targets and bad targets, regardless of the brand or the search coil used. However, the Makro Racer 2, a Single 14 kHz Frequency model with 5" DD coil, can get 2 very-good and 2-reasonably-good hits the other direction and with a slower-sweep to get 4-out-of-4. Or, as I demonstrated then and anytime, I can grab a Nokta 19 kHz Relic Single-Frequency and hit 4-out-of-4, or the 15 kHz Nokta CoRe and easily get 4-out-of-4 ,,, even at an increased Disc. level to the Ferrous/Non-Ferrous break-point.

So the 'multi-magic' didn't win out on that example .... but that's OK because you also have an excellent Single-Frequency Nokta CoRe.winking smiley

At least with the White's model Brian knows what the actual working Frequencies are, but you don't get that information .... not the straight information .... from Minelab about their BBS, FBS or current Multi-IQ models. They don't convey what Frequency or how many Frequencies might be working at any given time.

I will clarify say here that PART of what you said often holds true and I can get a very good, and reasonably accurate, visual VDI numeric read-out on some desired coins even in a close associations with some Iron Nails. No, not always, but often enough and when too-close, using my Multi-IQ Vanquish better than I can with other detectors. I do enjoy my two Vanquish 540's with Multi-IQ for a lot of different hunting and site challenges, but I also am learning the weaknesses and have seen the performance edge I get from other detectors when I have compared the same located targets side-by-side. That's why I have a Detector OUTFIT with assorted models and coils so that I can take advantage of the strengths each of them based on the challenges that confront me..


Quote
UtahRich
4. Does the Equinox have to ground balance?

For most locations NO. Provided there is not strong / extreme ground mineral causing falsing. The Equinox is able to separate the ground signal from possible targets by constantly comparing the ground / target responses from each frequency to each other. If the ground is highly mineralized, the Equinox should be ground balanced using the coil bob method over clean ground OR it can be manually set to a specific number on the scale.
The Equinox 800 DOES have some design glitch that I anticipated in the Vanquish series. and it is usually evident if you use the Multi-IQ search function, a maximum Sensitivity level so you can hear it better, and then,, with the GB set at the default '0' and you do NOT GB, simply activate the All Metal Accept Horseshoe button and bob the search coil up-and-down from about ½" to about 6" .

If the different frequencies are reading the ground signal and adjusting for it, the detector will remain silent on both the down-stroke and the up-lift away from the ground. But that's a big 'IF' based on what they either said might happen or what some folks have star=ted and others have come to believe it. Just prove it to yourself. Use each of the EQ-800's available modes:

• Use Multi-IQ only
• Leave the device at the default '0' Ground balance.
• Do NOT make and Automated or Manual GB adjustment.
• Maximum Sensitivity
• Activate the All Metal Accept 'Horseshoe' button .. then ...
• Bob the search coils from 1" to 6" over ground, and most ground has some level of mineralization. If the Multi-Frequency story is supposed to work, do it over moderate to highly mineralized ground.

If the unit remains silanet and you followed the steps, then that would be a first time I have heard of it hapopoening. Depending upon the search mod you're using in Multi-IQ, you might bghet a 'Beep' on the don-stroke of the search coil goin towards the ground, and that a behavior of a somewhat Positive Ground balance. On the other hand, you might hear an audibl beep on the Uplift-of the coil Away from the ground. That suggests you have a somewhat Negative Ground Balance.

If so, Do Not Change Any Settings ...EXCEPT ... Ground Balance using the Automated method or Manually GB. That should clear up the glitchy performance on start-up, and therefore demonstrate that using a proper Ground balance is a good thing, anytime,


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UtahRich
5. Does my 800 make the bed in the morning, take the trash out, mow the lawn, wash the clothes and dishes and cook my breakfast, lunch and dinner?

It would, if my wife would let my detectors in the house. So, until that time. I will have to do those chores myself. grinning smiley
The EQ-800 does work, and so does my Minelab Vanquish as I have it adjusted. And no, it doesn't do all those handy things for me, either. But it also doesn't work great all the time and everywhere, either, and that's why I, and you, have more than just one Simultaneous detector.


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UtahRich
As an additional thought, as much as I DO like my 800 and have found that it is more than a jack-of-all-trades / master of none, I DO HAVE OTHER DETECTORS that I use and in some circumstances, prefer, to my 800. My Deus and CoRe aren't there for decoration.
EXACTLY !!! I just don't want casual readers to catch your posted comments and by-pass your closing comment and have them thinking it is time to bow-down to all Simultaneous detectors.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detectors: Vanquish 540; CoRe, Relic, Impact & Simplex +; Bandido II µMAX & Silver Sabre µMAX; ORX
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive .. Headphones: Killer B's 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' ... White's 'Pro Star'
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

Nice handful of relics picking through the iron with the Equinox

diggindeep 112 April 05, 2020 11:44AM

Re: Nice handful of relics picking through the iron with the Equinox

Goondock 46 April 07, 2020 08:23PM

More finds with a new mode. . . . . thumbs up

UtahRich 66 April 06, 2020 04:24PM

Re: More finds with a new mode. . . . . thumbs up Attachments

Remfire 71 April 07, 2020 09:01AM

More finds with a new frequency. Other settings might differ.

Monte 48 April 08, 2020 12:56AM

Re: More finds with a new mode. . . . . thumbs up

Goondock 48 April 07, 2020 08:26PM

Re: More finds with a new mode. . . . . thumbs up

silverhound2 49 April 07, 2020 07:36PM

Beauty is only "skin deep", esspecially with some coins and tokens.

Monte 44 April 08, 2020 01:11AM

Re: More finds with a new mode. . . . . thumbs up

OregonGregg 46 April 07, 2020 07:57AM

Frequencies -- Multi Vs Single. thinking ... and What Frequency?confused smiley

Monte 60 April 07, 2020 07:49AM

Multi Vs Single. thinking ... and What Frequency? thinking

UtahRich 40 April 07, 2020 05:34PM

Well, here are some Questions .. Thoughts .. Opinions and a little ????

Monte 45 April 08, 2020 07:56AM

Opinions, BS, Snake Oil and a little . . "Thanks, but, No Thanks" thumbs up

UtahRich 51 April 08, 2020 08:43PM

Back to you, Rich.

Monte 48 April 09, 2020 03:30AM

- Beyond Missed

UtahRich 52 April 09, 2020 03:01PM

Rich you covered them well, except these two:

Monte 35 April 10, 2020 03:27PM

Re: Nice handful of relics picking through the iron with the Equinox

OregonGregg 47 April 06, 2020 08:20AM

Re: Nice handful of relics picking through the iron with the Equinox

NWCindy 46 April 05, 2020 03:09PM

Great finds, Andrew.thumbs up Was that one of your old military sites?

Monte 58 April 05, 2020 12:06PM

Re: Great finds, Andrew.thumbs up Was that one of your old military sites?

diggindeep 54 April 05, 2020 04:17PM

Re: Great finds, Andrew.thumbs up Was that one of your old military sites?

jmaryt 54 April 05, 2020 12:47PM



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