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A Detector collection .. Coil selection .. and Responses to your post.

January 02, 2020 08:20AM avatar
Scott this is a very interesting post to get the new year started. By the way, probably typical of me, my response is likely to be a bit longer-winded than yours.eye rolling smiley


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scottwyl
This could get long-winded. I apologize in advance.

Two or so years ago I transitioned from a MXT Tracker to a Racer 2. I got the 7" concentric and 5" coils. I used it a while, and marveled at how small bits of metal were detected. I was not pleased that shallow square tabs rang up in zinc cent range, however.
The MXT was a good detector and I had one from the time they were first introduced, then upgraded to the MXT Pro which I found to have better feature improvements. It was my #1 general-purpose detector until January 8th 5 years ago. That's when a Nokta FORS CoRe was delivered and within 24-48 hours most of my other detectors started going up for sale, and the MXT Pro was one of the first. Still a good detector, however, the Nokta CoRe, and soon the original Makro Racer were commanding most of my attention.

As you know, I mainly hunt old-use places with a lot of nails and other ferrous debris and the smaller 'OOR' search coils on those two models saw most of the use. I wished for, and constantly asked for, a smaller-size Concentric coil. In early January of 2016, just four years ago, I got two prototype units that added more adjustment to my Detector Outfit. Those were a 19 kHz FORS series model that was name-changed to the Relic by production. It looks identical to the FORS CoRe in physical design, but the 15 kHz CoRe has remained as one or my two Relic Hunting favorites, 'tied' for the #1 spot with the FORS Relic. Because I hunt in heavy debris so much, I keep the 'OOR' DD on my CoRe, and my main-use Relic uses the round 5" DD coil.

The reasons the Relic ranks right there with the CoRe are the difference in operating frequency, and the fact that it has a 'DEEP' mode, and best of all the Iron Audio Volume. That really helps when I'm working in and around so much ferrous junk. At the same time I also got the prototype and about to be released Racer 2. Like the original Racer, it operates at 14 kHz and they share the same search coils, but the Racer 2 Pro Pack came with a round 5" DD instead of the 'OOR' shaped DD. I like the looks of the 'OOR' but on the Racer 2 the 5" DD slightly outperforms it.

The Racer 2 has several improvements in adjustments and modes and came in a much better physical grip angle design. It immediately replaced my original Racer. I continued to use an 'OOR' or 5" DD coil on it, but in most settings I preferred my CoRe or Relic with their same-size coils. Why? Honestly, a better 'feel' but especially a little better in-the-field performance. But that changed by mid-2017.

In January of 2017 I got the prototype Impact and really liked it, but didn't like the small 4X7½ DD elliptical coil that was in the Pro Pack. it failed, terribly, on a couple of tough challenges with one using my Nail Board and a small, narrow, thin 1836 Capped Bust Half-Dime instead of a bigger Indian Head of Zinc Penny. In a phone call I let Dilek know that such test comparisons, and we used a lot of different detectors, was usually due to both a search coil's size and type as well as a detector's circuitry design. I wished for an 'OOR' or 5" DD for the Impact and the Nokta 'team' got busy on one. They made two of the 5" DDs and sent one to me to evaluate. It made a pronounced improvement in performance, out-doing the Racer / Racer 2 w/'OOR' or 5" DD and matching the results I got with the FORS Relic w/5" DD.

Better yet, that was very quickly followed by introducing a few other search coils they designed, to include an open-frame 5X9½ DD that I preferred, by far, over the solid-body 5½X10 DD they had. I have one on a lower rod for quick-change to my CoRe, and I have one to keep mounted full-time on my 2nd Relic. A different coil they introduced at that time was the round-shaped 7" Concentric that was made for the Racer 2 and also for the Impact. That became my favorite coil to keep mounted on those two models basically all the time because it was so versatile as a 'general-purpose' search coil.

Here in my den I have my detectors at-the-ready with their most-used search coils mounted. The new Racer 2 I just got in September or October sports the 7" Concentric coil. I have it assigned to my urban Coin & Jewelry Team and it performs well. I also use it for 'scouting' all types of sites when out exploring a new location, and one benefit of the 7" Concentric coil is it does a great job in places with a lot of rusty tin shards and some of the iron washers and similar challenges. It tends to 'classify' them with a better audio 'language' than a Double-D, and the numeric VDI read-out is also a little lower than what the DD coils usually produce.

Note on those pesky Rectangular Pry-Tabs you're encountering: The ones that produce a higher VDI read-out that basically duplicate a modern Zinc Cent. That's not a fault of the Racer 2 or the coil choice. My oldest son, Monte Jr.,, and I were Coin Hunting back in Utah maybe three years ago and he told me he dug down in the bark-chip material at a tot-lot for a coin but got a Pry-Tab. I asked to see it and he had thrown in in the trash can, so there we were, two adults digging in the trash to find that rectangular tab. Sure enough, it locks-on rock solid as a modern Zinc Cent!

I still have it in my sample jug, but I am not sure what container it came off of. Someone suggested it might have been from a beverage container from outside the US such as some sold at a Hispanic market so I'm going to check that out when I find such discarded containers. I'm also going to start breaking some tabs off of a number of cans we more commonly see and try to figure out which can is causing us new frustrations.

It isn't anything you can fault the Racer 2 or a specific coil for. Back in September I made a brief stop at that little park on the south end of Stanfield to take a stretch. Found just short of 50 coins and perhaps hit on almost 20 of those rectangular tabs. All gave me a more typical Nickel reading and I was hoping to find a few more that gave a Zinc cent response. So that isn't, or wasn't, one of the park areas you're finding them. I've only encountered another at one different location.


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scottwyl
Partly because I wanted a waterproof detector, and mostly because of the VDI situation, I got a Multi Kruzer. I used it much more than the Racer 2, and began to get a feel for the sound quality of targets first, and not relying on VDI as primary means of classifying a target. I did not care for the stock coil, and soon got a 7 incher for it. Much better!
I had a Multi-Kruzer and liked some of the features, but the audio isn't as good as the Racer 2, or the CoRe or Relic. Also, the Kruzer doesn't balance as well as the Racer 2, either, Using the same size search coil, the Racer 2 is more top-heavy or just heavier in general. The Racer 2 is more comfortable for me, and many of those I've spoken with who have, or have had, both devices.

With ALL detectors I use, I rely on the audio response more than any visual read-out. I will agree, however, that the Multi-Kruzer was also a nicer or more versatile performer with the 7" Concentric coil. I never use the stock coil on my CoRe, relic Racer 2 or almost any other detector I own. There are only three exceptions, and those are my XP ORX units with a 5X9½ DD or round 9" DD, plus the new Nokta / Makro Simplex+ w/11" DD. Of course, part of that is because there are no smaller-size coils for any of these.


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scottwyl
I still had wants, mostly waterproof head phones, and a hankering to try out that new coil on the Anfibio. The Kruzer was fine, but I felt I was lacking in depth at an older park that is local to me.
Well, I don't care for any of the 7X11 DD coils on all those models, but I really liked the round 11" DD on the Anfibio's. I haven't been that interested in the 'depth' discussions all that much because what I have been using has been finding me the 'deeper' coins in the open areas, such as plowed fields, or older grassy parks that are more open and with fewer shallow masking targets. The problem I had with that coil and detector, however, is that the physical package of the Anfibio, to include the built-in Lithium battery and the heavier system box on top of the hand-grip makes the detector feel top-heavy, and the 11" DD coil adds to that unit's overall weight. I did like the 11" round coil, however.


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scottwyl
Instead of buying these items separately like any sane person would, I found a forum deal with an Anfibio that included the waterproof 'phones.
That might have been a better move .... if everything is working out OK for you.


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scottwyl
Now I have a 3rd detector to learn, without thoroughly learning the first 2, particularly the Racer 2.
Yep, and I saw that coming as I read your post. With three units, and progressing to a newer model, and then an even newer yet device, it can cause some people to sort of ignore their earlier devices when, in reality, if they had spent the time to learn and master it, they might not have spent the money of the other units to begin with.


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scottwyl
I have maybe 10 hours on the Anfibio, all with the stock coil and wireless head phones. This set up is deeper than any of the others I have or have had.
Yes, I noticed that as well, even though I am not all that interested in 'depth' most of the time. Most detectors can get better depth than many might believe, but I have used the Anfibio Multi w/11" DD stock coil and done well on deeper coins where possible. But I have also hit on some deeper coins with the Racer 2 w/7" Concentric or my FORS CoRe w/5X9½ DD. And now, on just a couple of outings, using the Simplex+ with stock 11" DD I've done okay.


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scottwyl
Besides these 3 I also have an XL Pro and a Classic IDX with the 4" Snooper coil.
I'm still keeping an open eye for a pristine condition XL Pro. I don't need one, but might add a choice condition specimen . I do have an 'as-new' condition IDX Pro with the Mr. Bill's modes done by Keith Southern and it is an excellent job, and this is a pretty 'hot' specimen. I keep a 6½" Concentric mounted to it full time. I keep my Simplex+, modified IDX Pro and a Tesoro Silver Sabre microMAX w/6" Concentric in my vehicle regularly as my assigned 'Travel Team'; just in case I want to get out and hunt or chance upon some site during an average day of going places.

Then I have my ''Relic Hunting Team' I load up if I set out for a day or more of mainly hunting ghost towns, homesteads and similar sites. Those include my Nokta CoRe w/'OOR' DD, Relic w/5" DD, XP ORX w/5X9½ DD HF coil and a Tesoro Bandido II µMAX w/6" Concentric. My 'Coin & Jewelry Hunting Team' are loaded if I'm off for a day or more of dedicated Coin & Jewelry Hunting, and those include my Racer 2 w/7" Concentric, Relic w/5" DD, XP ORX w/round 9" X35 DD and Tesoro Silver Sabre µMAX w/6" Concentric.

I'm always trying to learn more about any detector, but I'm quite comfortable with all of these I keep in my Regular-Use Detector Outfit.


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scottwyl
I have already found a silver Rosie in a hunted out school yard with the Anfibio, although I believe the Kruzer or XL would also have got it.
The feat that has got my attention was a dime on edge that gave a double beep, just as any surface coin on edge would. Thing is, this dime was over 3" deep, and I was in 3 tone mode, disc at 2, and isat at 0. Gain was 92.
I really liked the Anfibio & 11" DD, except for the weight and balance. A friend is using it this winter season as he spends it down in some generally warmer southwestern states.

The ONLY modes I use, other than All Metal, on a CoRe, Relic, Racer 2, or the Impact, Kruzer, or Anfibio, are 2-Tone, 3-Tone, and Deep. On all of my Nokta / Makro models I 'save' my settings to start-up in the 3-Tone mode with a Sensitivity at '99' and Disc. just low enough to accept iron nails. If they have Iron Audio Volume it is set at '1' or '2' and an iSAT is at '0' or '1'. I keep things simple and run units pretty hot and opened up. I save my 2-Tone and DEEP models with a Sensitivity of '95' and similar other settings as in 3-Tone.

Different from them is my Simplex+ and I have ALL modes set at full Sensitivity and full Volume, and all three Disc. modes are at '0' Discrimination as I am accepting all of the Disc. segments. In the 3-Tone Park mode I have Iron Audio Volume at '2' Bars, and the 2-Tone Field mode Iron Audio is at '1' Bar. The 2-Tone Beach mode doesn't allow Iron Audio Volume control so it is at the default full-volume / loudness of '3' Bars. Also, I prefer the Beach mode to start out in, so I shut the Simplex+ 'Off' when I am in Beach mode. That way when I turn it 'On' it starts u where I left off.

I have my other brand detectors also saved like that, or I turn them 'On' and quickly set similar settings of full Sensitivity, then if it is necessary due to EMI, I back off slightly just until I gain stability.


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scottwyl
However, this detector on these settings also loves the steel bottle caps. They sound good, even raising the coil off the ground. I suspect it is that DD coil, along with minimal disc causing this.
Steel Bottle Caps are going to be an annoyance, and have been an annoyance, ever since we started using motion-based Discriminators back in '78. Some of the earlier models did provide a little control over some of them, such as using a Bottle Cap reject on some White's models, and that worked best because they were analog designs and also because they used Concentric search coils. Similar problem targets are round iron washers.

These types of targets are a nuisance because they are a man-shaped iron object and due to the detector designs they no longer behave like they did when encountered by one of those good early-era TR or TR-Disc. models. Much easier to deal with Bottle Caps and washers and similar objects. We also have more problems since going from analog circuitry to the modern digital type circuitry, and so many detectors are used with Double-D coils, and that doesn't help..

That said, there are some detectors that can handle them a bit better, and search coil choice also can work to our advantage. I found the 7" Concentric coil on the Racer 2 as well as the Impact to give a better audio and visual response on many / most Bottle Caps, washer and hunks of rusty tin than I got from a DD coil. Plus, using some search techniques, like 'Edge-Pass rejection' or 'EPR' has been useful for me since the late '70s and early '80s.


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scottwyl
My plan is to put the 7" coil on the Anfibio and see how it compares to the Kruzer, and how the Kruzer acts with the bigger coil.
That would be a fun experiment, but I found the Kruzer and Anfibio to behave quite similarly with the same coils in use. I also, as I mentioned earlier, found that I liked the audio tone and quality of the Racer 2 over the Kruzer and Anfibio, which is why I settled on the Racer 2 with 7" Concentric being the model & coil I'd keep in my working battery.

I don't swim or wade out far in the water, but could drop a detector, or fall with a detector, or now-and-then I might hunt in a light shower, so having a waterproof detector was on my list. That was filled by the Simplex+ which is not only waterproof and also has a nice 11' DD coil, but it is a simpler-to-use device, lighter weight and better balanced than the Kruzer or Anfibio. At least for me, and I've worked all last year to trim my detectors to those that are going to be more comfortable for me to use with my mobility and health limitations. That's something we all want to do, and that is adjust our detector Outfit to have detectors we like to use, we can handle well, that provide the performance we want, and that we happen to like.


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scottwyl
Looking back, I should have drastically lowered the gain when I was learning the Racer 2. I plan on leaving the small coil on it and use it to look for gold rings in the seas of can slaw we have. There are also some torn down shacks littered with nails it could be useful at. The main thing is to log some hours on it, and really listen instead of watching numbers.
Why lower the Gain / Sensitivity? Even most good User Manuals suggest we use it as high as possible w/o EMI instability.

Couldn't agree more about using a smaller-size coil to better handle a lot of nails and other trash, and to help in locating smaller-size targets. Also about spending as much hunt-time as possible to learn a detector's audio response. To me that's much more useful information than a visual TID read-out. Oh, I glance at my display now and then, but the audio has already let me know if I am going to make a recovery or not.


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scottwyl
The Kruzer and 7" coil is what I have the most confidence in right now. That could change, depending on how the Anfibio acts with it on.
Gaining confidence with every make and model detector we own and use is very important. That's what I always have tried to do, and also couple a detectors performance and talents for certain applications with a search coil or two that I feel make the best 'fit' for my needs. That's how I cam to pick-and-choose the best coil I keep mounted on each of my detectors. That way I just grab what I feel is the best set-up for the conditions when I arrive at a search site.


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scottwyl
The IDX is good for tot lots and getting up close with fence lines. The XL Pro only comes out on sunny days to cover ball fields.
For tot-lots and hunting closer to metal fences and structures, I usually grab one of my Tesoro's w/6" Concentric, but a second choice would be my modified IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric. For wide-open sports fields and comparable places, my first grab is my XP ORX w/9" X35 DD coil. Most targets are well spaced at most of them in the open field area.


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scottwyl
So, I have a few questions:

Does the Racer 2 do anything better than the Kruzer or Anfibio?
... For me, yes. The Racer 2 FEELS better in weight and balance. I prefer the audio response better with the Racer 2 than the Kruzer or Anfibio. Thus, I am more confident with it in places I spend most of my time.

Does the Anfibio have any hidden capabilities the Kruzer does not, other than more options to customize tones and ranges?... For me, No, it doesn't. It does do some things a little different from the Multi-Kruzer, and the main thing I liked about the Anfibio Multi was the grip, and 'feel' with the 11" DD coil over the Multi-Kruzer.

Would the 9" concentric be a good replacement for the Anfibio DD coil?... In MY opinion, NOT. I found that coil to be too heavy and too awkward. I felt it was an error in design because the rod-mount on the 7" Concentric is properly close to the center-axis of the coil. The 9" Concentric is way too-far toward the rear of the coil and it's already a too-heavy coil. Combined with the poor rod-mount locations, I didn't care for that coil at all.

And when I was working with it for comparison, the Anfibio stock 11" DD was far more pleasant to use, and it was much more comfortable as well. The 7" Concentric was what I preferred as a general-use coil other than the 11" which I had on-hand for more open ares.


Is having the Kruzer and Anfibio redundant? Would I be better served trading one for something else? If so, what???... In my opinion Yes, it is redundant. Of the two I definitely favored the Anfibio Multi for it's grip design, 11" DD coil, and ability to collapse for storage or travel, if needed. It just felt a little better in weight and balance, for me, than the Multi-Kruzer. That said, I have the two best tools in my CoRe and Relic for taking on some really challenging iron nail challenged sites, and those tow can get perfect hits on one tough test I use with 1-Brass Button Front and 1-3½" Iron nail and get 4-out-of-4 hits using their small coils.

No other make or model from Minelab, XP, Fisher, Teknetics, Garrett, White's, Tesoro or other maker with their small coil and using the 3 Disc. level settings I request can do better than 2-out-of-4 hits on that test. None that I have tried or have invited others to try their detectors on that test as well. Oh, and that includes any other model from Nokta / Makro as well, and I'll wait for smaller coils for the Simplex+ to see how that model can take on that test
.

Don't let any wet or cols winter weather halt you from learning more about each of your detectors. Air-Test or Bench-Test them indoors, find a spot outdoors to do some comparison work. Get to know each detector you own as if it was a best friend. Those are the ones you can trust and depend on in time of need.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detectors: I rely on an assortment of personal favorites I happen to like that work for me when and where I need them.
Pinpointers: Makro & Pulse-Dive .. Headphones: Killer B's 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' ... Detector Pro's Gray Ghost XP
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

My detector collection

scottwyl 177 January 01, 2020 11:40PM

A Detector collection .. Coil selection .. and Responses to your post.

Monte 162 January 02, 2020 08:20AM

Re: A Detector collection .. Coil selection .. and Responses to your post.

scottwyl 108 January 03, 2020 08:58PM

Re: A Detector collection .. headphones

Kickindirt 103 January 04, 2020 08:29AM

Back to you, Scott.

Monte 138 January 04, 2020 02:26AM

Re: Back to you, Scott.

scottwyl 71 January 05, 2020 08:31PM

Re: Back to you, Scott.

Kickindirt 72 January 05, 2020 10:17PM



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