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If you have the 6000 Pro XL / XL Pro Instruction Manual, refer to this.

November 22, 2018 08:54AM avatar
Quote
Wayfarer
Great detailed explanation of "fold over." Thank you Monte and Hombre. White's should have hired you both to write their manuals. This is important information for any XL Pro user to know to get the best performance out of their machine. I typically get a bit of "fold over" no matter where I have the signal balance set unless it's very low, like 10 o'clock or lower. I think a small amount of fold over is acceptable, because I can turn SB way up before it gets chattery even though I'm getting a bit of fold over the whole way up from 10 o'clock to 3. The fold over, for me in my ground anyway, doesn't get really bad and noticeable until the detector starts getting chattery, around the 2-3:00 area on the SB control. Again, this is one of those performance phenomenons that can be tested with a good in-ground test target. Turn up the SB too high and you start to lose the really deep targets even though the detector seems smooth.
If you have the 6000 Pro Xl or XL Pro Instruction Manual, go to page 28, Part I and Sub-Part E. Here White's describes the audio Increase and Decrease using the term "Wobbles." This is a description of the effects of 'Fold-Over' but most folks miss this information. Why? Because it is explained when using the TR-Disc. mode which most Hobbyists seldom make use of ... or understand.

'Fold-Over' is often more difficult for people to hear in the GEB-Disc. or All Metal modes due to some auto-tuning behavior in their circuitry, but an errant Ground Balance, in combination with a too-high Sensitivity/Gain setting, can have a negative effect on performance.


Quote
Wayfarer
Fold over also seems to behave a lot like the old TR detectors when you are trying to disc out the ground and have the disc set too high. You get an increase in signal as you approach the ground then it goes silent right when you get to within 0-1".
Close, in that the TR and TR-Disc. models will let you hear the audio reaction as the coil is lowered toward or lifted away from the ground. As a rule, the audio will diminish or decrease to a silent null as the coil is lowered towards the ground from about a 6" to 8" coil height. If a detector has a moderate to faster Auto-Tine in a conventional TR/TR-Disc. mode you will hear some changes to the Threshold audio, but that is partly due to the auto-tuning effects on trying to restore a functional Threshold audio.

'Fold-Over' is kind of related to that but is really more an issue with detectors operating in a VLF or LF frequency range AND making use of a Ground Balance circuitry to compensate for the ground signal and ... hopefully ... just balance it out to stay neutral. As I mentioned before, it also takes into consideration the amount of higher mineralized, ferrous ground - plus - the search coil size and type - plus - the detector's Sensitivity and/or Receive Gain settings.

Fortunately, the XL Pro and other White's models with a Signal Balance control (also named Pre-Amp Gain or RX Gain on some of their other models) does allow us to adjust for some extra oomph! or be able to deal with EMI from outside sources or from the interaction of the EMF and the ground mineral composition.


Quote
Wayfarer
I use to hunt this way most of the time with my old Coinmaster 2DB thinking I was getting smooth audio and some iron disc at the same time, not knowing that I was losing lots of depth. I kick myself now, but back then, good targets were so numerous, coins in the 1-3" range kept me plenty busy. eye rolling smiley I got that detector in the summer of 1980 saving up money from my paper route. I used to find so much in a typical day, I'd think nothing of heading right down to the 5 & dime store afterwards and spend some of my "take" on a nice candy bar or pack of gum, or maybe all of it on a model airplane or other toy. Back then a full size candy bar or pack of gum was 20-25 cents.
If you got your detector in 1980, had a paper route, and found a lot of coins in the 1" to 3" range, just imagine what we were finding back in the latter '60s and on through the '70s! It was still good but starting to decline from the early '80s through the latter '90s.

We still had the really nice Fine & Dime stores, but our packs of gum and candy bars were usually 5¢ in the '50s and early '60s. From the summer of '68 and the spring of '69, my older brother & I would use one detector and, each armed with a rounded-off screwdriver, we'd head out, fill a pint jar of coins, then go to Pinky's for lunch. Use some napkins to separate the silver coins, Buffalo & 'V' nickels, Wheaties & Indian Heads, then use the 'modern' change to pay for our lunch. Grub was cheaper back then, too, and gas at the Texaco station varied from 19.9¢ to 17.9¢ when they had their 'Gas War" sign out front.

And that was a few years before we had a TR-Discriminating model, too. Wouldn't it be nice to go back to that '65 to '80 era again, but with one or two of our better modern detectors?


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Wayfarer
I'd use the silver coins because they didn't look dirty. Doh! I spent hundreds of silver coins at the local stores that summer re-introducing them to circulation, before I learned I'd get far more selling them at the local coin shop. 20 silvers a day was not at all unusual, especially at permission sites that had never been hunted (who could say no to a 10-year old kid?). Those were the days!
Yes, silver coins were still pretty frequent. I'm sure a lot of those merchants looked forward to your return shopping trips ... with silver coins in-hand.


Quote
Wayfarer
Thanks again Monte and Hombre. Great information memorialized here on AHRPS for future reference. You can't find this kind of expert information on these detectors anywhere else on the web.
'Thank You,' and yes, the AHRPS Forums do attract more helpful and knowledgeable participants than what I often see on some other forums.

So 'Thank You' for being one of our contributors as well.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
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*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

How to get the most out of the 6000 Pro XL later it was named XL ProWhite's Electronics

Hombre 322 November 13, 2018 09:16PM

Re: How to get the most out of the 6000 Pro XL later it was named XL ProWhite's Electronics

Wayfarer 239 November 15, 2018 06:22AM

Wayfarer, a little added comment about 'Fold-Over' and Signal Balance.

Monte 202 November 18, 2018 09:50AM

Re: Wayfarer, a little added comment about 'Fold-Over' and Signal Balance.

Wayfarer 232 November 22, 2018 01:42AM

If you have the 6000 Pro XL / XL Pro Instruction Manual, refer to this.

Monte 249 November 22, 2018 08:54AM

Re: If you have the 6000 Pro XL / XL Pro Instruction Manual, refer to this.

Dick Stout 160 December 07, 2018 12:59PM

I dream all the time about going 'back-in-time.'

Monte 162 December 07, 2018 02:58PM

Re: I dream all the time about going 'back-in-time.'

D&P-OR 224 December 09, 2018 01:49PM

Re: I dream all the time about going 'back-in-time.'

Druid 186 December 09, 2018 12:37PM

Re: Wayfarer, a little added comment about 'Fold-Over' and Signal Balance.

Wayfarer 211 November 22, 2018 07:11AM

Darren, you couldn't be closer to describing near perfection. One of White's all-time finest models ....

Monte 211 November 22, 2018 09:13AM

Wonky Ground Balance and Fold Over.....

Hombre 253 November 17, 2018 06:31PM

Re: Wonky Ground Balance and Fold Over.....

Wayfarer 182 November 22, 2018 01:50AM

Re: Wonky Ground Balance and Fold Over.....

Hombre 157 November 22, 2018 11:37AM

Re: How to get the most out of the 6000 Pro XL later it was named XL ProWhite's Electronics

Timbertodd 208 November 14, 2018 07:22PM

Todd, about your '6000' model.

Monte 222 November 15, 2018 05:00PM

Re: Todd, about your '6000' model.

Timbertodd 192 November 15, 2018 07:04PM

Re: How to get the most out of the 6000 Pro XL later it was named XL ProWhite's Electronics

scottwyl 222 November 13, 2018 10:03PM

Re: How to get the most out of the 6000 Pro XL later it was named XL ProWhite's Electronics

Hombre 237 November 13, 2018 10:20PM

Re: How to get the most out of the 6000 Pro XL later it was named XL ProWhite's Electronics

scottwyl 233 November 14, 2018 06:50PM

Two very good models you've added, and a wise decision.

Monte 221 November 15, 2018 05:06PM

Re: Two very good models you've added, and a wise decision.

scottwyl 207 November 16, 2018 01:41PM

Almost .. but not quite.

Monte 170 November 16, 2018 11:53PM



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