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Drew, a reply here regarding White's.

May 08, 2020 09:09AM avatar
I moved the Tesoro inquiry over to the Tesoro Electronics Forum.

Quote
Druid
I have a couple of older Whites units at present, Sven modified IDX and a C cell model 5900 Di-pro. I have spent quite a bit of time with Whites detectors but really lack experience with the older Tesoro models.

A lot of the "older detectors" can still hold-their-own against a lot of the modern-era digitally-based detectors. In my opinion, and it is shared by many others who are savvy about the design and performance potential, White's sure dropped the ball when it came to improving some of what they offered in that better era of White's products. My current modified IDX Pro was done by Keith Southern and he did an excellent job. Most of those I owned in the past, and it was many, were modified by 'Mr. Bill' Crabtree himself. I had modified Classic III SL's, Classic ID's and IDX Pro and all of them helped enhance the versatility (aka performance) of those models.

I used to make frequent drives down to the White's factory, especially during and after the Classic SL series were in production, and I'd ask, and never got a decent answer as to why White's didn't take one more step ahead and provide those models with their own in-house design to add the Threshold and manual Ground Balance controls. An engineer, I was told, had figured that would be a next move and the SL series were designed with the hole under the flag to access the GB trimmer, figuring that they were going to simply add an external GB control there in the future. I spoke with both engineers and with the figureheads, but some just didn't seem to be into metal detecting enough to appreciate the concept.

An engineering friend there told me that he didn't care for the Classic series because they were not upper-end performers lik e the 6000 series or XLT. I think part of the differences was that he helped deign the much improved 6000 Pro XL, and he was also a very avid Coin Hunter in typical urban sites where those models did have an edge. He wasn't into Relic Hunting the very Iron contaminated ghost towns and similar sites where he might have appreciated the performance of the two-filter Classic series.

As for the 5900 Di Pro, it was my favorite of the bigger, C-cell powered Di series due to the very functional manual GB control. One of the better engineering moves White's made was to re-package the earlier 6000 Di Pro SL 'concept' into the smaller, 'Slim-Line' housing like the XLT that was powered by the slide-in 8-AA battery tray. That was the 6000 Pro XL which was an almost completely new engineering process. They wanted to retain the excellent needle-meter of the 6000 / 5900 series, but the 6000 Di Pro SL's circuitry was just too big to cram into the smaller housing.

When working with a couple of prototypes I talked with him about the new model and he told me they only retained about 15 to 17 parts from the former model. The 6000 Pro XL, which was later renamed the XL Pro, was basically a new design that kept the Automated GB and Tracking option. I asked for, as did a few others I know, for White's to make the 6000 Pro XL in a manual GB version, similar to the 5900 Di Pro SL, biut they told me that some of the parts availability, such as the needle-meter, and a few other parts were in short supply and would be difficult to acquire, and they were moving ahead with newer projects.

A 'Slim-Line' packaged, manual GB version surer would have been nice to have. So much for 'progress.' The 5900 Di Pro SL was near the end of the 'good' era, as were the Classic SL models which they discontinued and replaced them with the crappy 'Prizm' series.


Quote
Druid
I would like to hear any reports from Time in the field, NBPT, depth comments, speed of response/recovery?
What say you all who may have put in time with both detectors?

I can guarantee you I have ample 'time-in-the-field' with most Tesoro's and White's Classic series. Way back in the '80s and early '90s I preferred the 7" Concentric on the Tesoro's almost full-time, but switched to the smaller 6" Concentric as soon as they were produced. I never cared for the dinky 4" Tesoro coils. On those earlier models w/o the Low-Noise / High-Gain circuitry they were terrible on useful depth of performance in trashier places.

On the White's Classic series, however, the 6½" Concentric coil (the one they called a 600 or 5.3 Black Max or 5.3 Bullseye) was my most-used favorite and was always mounted to most of my White's detectors. I picked up a Classic ID the day they came out of production at White's and also a Blue Max 350 smaller coil. It measures more like 4"-4½", and I already had a 6½" coil for the Classic ID. I kept that set-up ready and mounted the BM 350 coil to my modified Classic III SL to work the dense trash sites or very confined areas of brush, rocks and building rubble. White's smaller coil was much more useful than the one from Tesoro.

Later, after the Classic IDX came out and then got a name-change to IDX Pro, I kept the 6½" Concentric on that model and moved the BM 350 to my modified Classic ID just to keep both coil sizes at-the-ready. I used the modified Classic series along with my very trusted and proven Tesoro models a lot, and with the Tesoro's it was mainly the original Bandido then Bandido II, but in October of '97 they introduced the much improved Bandido II µMAX (microMAX) and that is the main Tesoro I used when using the modified Classic ID and IDX Pro models. Here's how I'll answer your questions:

NBPT: It was interesting that I encountered the Indian Head Cent and four surrounding Iron Nails which resulted in my Nail Board Performance Test on the Memorial Day Outing to Frisco, Utah in '94, and also first met some folks with a Classic II w/8" Concentric coil at that Outing. One of my friends had a Tesoro Silver Sabre II, which also came standard with an 8" Concentric coil, so I had the opportunity to compare them. Advantage? The Tesoro handled it better .... but the Classic II was very close and that's what initially caught my interest in that design.

A White's Classic ID or IDX Pro w/6½" Concentric, like I prefer, and a Bandido II µMAX, or most comparable Tesoro's, with a 6" Concentric coil can both handle the NBPT. Both are able to provide 8-out-of-8 hits on an Indian Head or modern Zinc Cent on the NB, however, the advantages is in favor of the Tesoro models. Why? Possibly a bit of search coil design, but also more in circuitry. The Classic's can do well, but they need to have a slightly slower sweep-speed than what a Tesoro can handle.

But the NBPT is a tougher challenge than the average Hobbyist is going to encounter when Coin Hunting so, for most of those applications, they are more comparable

depth comments: I really like the improved performance of the Bandido II µMAX and Silver Sabre µMAX over the earlier Tesoro models because they use the Low-Noise / High-Gain circuitry and produce a louder and better audio response on mid-depth and deeper targets. I get very satisfactory performance from my favorite Tesoro's in most of the places I hunt .... but I'll qualify that by stating most coins and trade tokens and jewelry are usually not located very deep. Surface to 4", normally, and occasionally to 5"-6" if there's been ground disturbance or other outside causes for surface build-up. And the bulk of my detecting is in old town sites, homesteads and other places where 90% of my keepers are easily 'toe-scuffed' from loose soil from surface to about 3" or so. Depth isn't a factor.

That said, I have experienced slightly better depth-of-detection with my modified Classic ID and IDX Pro models when those situations occured and I had the two to compare side-by-side. Here's an example of what a Classic ID user experienced. A good friend had been using an XLT but acquired a Classic ID for hunting tot-lots and such but especially to take to the ghost towns. She had the 6½" Concentric coil mounted and was on one of her first detecting jaunts to learn her new-to-her detector.

As she retuned to the parking lot she asked "How Deep will it detect?" and "How accurate is the Target ID?" I told here they do well in both depth and TID accuracy, and asked why? She said she had a Penny/Dime TID lock-on and dug down 6" but got nothing. I suggested she go after the target if it sounded narrow like a coin and the TID was good. She headed back out to the spot to better learn what a Classic ID and 6½" coil could do and find out what caused the response. She soon returned, rather amazed, and said it was a Dime, clad, but was at about 9" deep. I was impressed, but not overly surprised.

speed of response/recovery: The Classic's do very well in response and recovery. Much better, being faster at doing both, than a lot of the competition out there, both analog and digital designs. That's one of the reasons I have enjoyed using a good modified Classic unit. Now, if asked to compare the performance of a modified Classic IDX Pro and a Bandido II µMAX with each using their 6½" and 6" Concentric coils, I might say something like this: The Classic series is a Fast-Response and Very-Good Recovery whereas the Tesoro unit is a Quick-Response and Fast-Recovery. A lot of people might not notice much difference, but when compared and demonstrated side-by-side, the Classic is very impressive, but the Tesoro usually has a bit of an 'edge'.


Quote
Druid
I would love to see a forum here just for vintage and/or “obsolete” makes and models of detectors of all kinds. Hope it is ok to just post this here, if not Monte please move as you see fit.
Cheers,
Drew

I guess we might question what is 'obsolete' or 'vintage?' It can't simply mean a discontinued model as that would include ALL Tesoro's, the 5900 Di Pro, ALL Classic series, and even the Nokta CoRe or Relic or other more recent offerings from many manufacturers, even though they are very popular and definite performers afield. Maybe just a Forum for defunct, out-of-business manufacturers? I'll give it some thought.

Moving the Tesoro model discussion over to the Tesoro Forum. Hope you don't mind.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detectors: Vanquish 540; CoRe, Relic, Impact & Simplex +; Bandido II µMAX & Silver Sabre µMAX; ORX
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive .. Headphones: Killer B's 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' ... White's 'Pro Star'
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*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***
Subject Author Views Posted

White's & Tesoro ... Don't overlook their good analog detectors.

Monte 58 May 07, 2020 08:47AM

Re: White's & Tesoro ... Don't overlook their good analog detectors.

OregonGregg 36 May 08, 2020 02:20PM

Re: White's & Tesoro ... Don't overlook their good analog detectors.

Druid 37 May 08, 2020 03:00PM

Re: White's & Tesoro ... Don't overlook their good analog detectors.

OregonGregg 38 May 08, 2020 03:12PM

Re: White's & Tesoro ... Don't overlook their good analog detectors.

Druid 37 May 08, 2020 03:18PM

Re: White's & Tesoro ... Don't overlook their good analog detectors.

OregonGregg 37 May 08, 2020 03:22PM

Re: White's & Tesoro ... Tesoro veterans contrast Silver Sabre vs the last Tesoro; Mojave

Druid 51 May 07, 2020 07:52PM

Kind of enjoyed the IDX

SvenS 51 May 10, 2020 01:00PM

Drew, a reply here regarding White's.

Monte 52 May 08, 2020 09:09AM

Re: Drew, a reply here regarding White's.

Druid 27 May 08, 2020 02:49PM



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