Welcome! Log In Create A New Profile

Advanced

Some thoughts and history of Finding some Deep Coins.

September 15, 2020 05:31AM avatar
Quote
Senior Deacon
I will ask this question which must have been ask before. I use a White's 5900 Di Pro Plus with the Six inch Blue Max coil.
After they brought out the 6000 Di Pro in mid-April of '85 with the 'automatic' GB that didn't work right, I was pleased to see them rename the 6000 Di Series 3 with 5900 to get away from the '6000' label they over-used. The 5900 version simply meant it used the Manual Ground Balance with the stacked Coarse Tune / Fine Tune controls.

I use the same Blue max 600 coil on my XLT, but in my posts you'll see me call it a 6½" Concentric coil because that's closer to the measured diameter. I favored their 6½" DD coils on the XLT, 6000 Pro XL they renamed XL Pro, and their Classic SL series like the Classic III SL, Classic ID and IDX Pro, and that coil stays mounted on my XLT full-time, or at least 95% of the time, simply because it gets the job done.


Quote
Senior Deacon
This is a stock standard detector bought off the Bay and have used it the last two years. It is good to about five to six inches on coins.
Using the 6½" Blue Max 600 coil on a modified Classic ID and IDX Pro, as well as the 5900 Di Pro SL, 6000 Pro XL / XL Pro and several (many) XLT's, the majority of the coins I found were located from surface to ±5". However, using all those models with that coil, I did find some deeper coins from time-to-time that were in the 5+" to 9" depth range. It seldom happened because most of the places I hunt I don't have to deal with any displacement issues or surface build-up to cause them to be deeper.


Quote
Senior Deacon
Even with the 12 inch Hot Head Coil seems I get a couple of inches more out of it.
Typically, a change to a 10" to 12" coil of the same type design can result in an increase of roughly 20%. So let's say your detector and current settings with the 6½" or even an 8" coil achieved 6", the 10" to 12" coil might provide a 20% increase in depth, and that would only be about 1.2", give-or-take a little.


Quote
Senior Deacon
Even with a 50% over lap of coil sweep I feel like I am missing some of the deeper coins. Any suggestions out side of ground balance and upping the sensitivity. I run in all metal mode most of the time. I am aware that the meter is one of the best for VID.
Yes, the White's needle meter was one of the best, coupled with their circuitry design to use it. The VDI (Visual Discrimination Indication) was very accurate and they held a 'lock-on' very well.

As for 'Overlapping', a 50% re-sweep coverage will work fine for the majority of the lost coins that are in the 'average' or 'typical depth' range of surface to about 3" or 4". But once the coin-to-coil depth increases, the EMF gets weaker and not as tight. The best performance and depth will be at or near the center-axis of the search coil.in the tighter portion of that field, and that means that to find the smaller-size common US coil, the 10¢ piece, the search coil should be advanced no more than the physical diameter of that coin.

Now I know that sounds like a terrible thing to have to consider when we confront a wide-open hunt site, but that isn't just a random 'theory' but it boils down to actual fact. It boils down to scientific measurement of the strongest portion of the EMF in the center-axis line of the search coil. And to make matters even more challenging, we know that in a 'perfect' side-to-side sweep me might only get a one-direction hit on a target. That can be caused by several things but often it is due to partial target masking caused by a closely-positioned metal object.

Therefore, in order to be assured we can get a good hit on a target that is so challenged, we need to sweep the same spot at least twice. So we would want to advance a search coil only the diameter of a 10¢ coin AND sweep both from the left and from the right before advancing the coil another dime-diameter distance. Yes, that seems like the darndest thing you've ever heard, but .... consider this:

How come we can hunt a location that has been hunted by a lot of people, often, and we have even hunted it a lot ourself, yet we still find a desired coin?

The simple answer is because it was missed and not swept directly, and I mean d-i-r-e-c-t-l-y over, from both directions, to have provided a good response in the past.

It is much easier to search that way with a smaller-size coil than it is a larger-diameter coil because with the bigger coil it seems like such a tiny portion of the coil's size. I have hunted many of my favorite old sites and made some great finds, but let me use just one old ghost town in Utah, that I named 'Twin Flats', as an example. I first hunted it on May 4th of 1969 using a White's Ghost Towner BFO that had a small 6" diameter wooden search coil.

And through the 1970's I would head out there only occasionally or when I had time and travelled that direction because I moved to Portland Oregon in '71 and there were so many places to hunt with a lot of coins and other desired targets to be found. During that era, and putting in all the time I could to hunt, I usually managed 60K to 70K coins per year, and much more when I wasn't working overtime or two jobs. Besides, the detectors we had until mid-'83 were either BFO's, TR's, TR-Discriminators, VLF/TR-Disc or, in about '78, the motion-based VLF-Disc. models. But those motion-Disc. models required a blistering fast sweep speed to work, and you can't hunt that way and work a coil in a ghost town that has a lot of weeds, tall grasses, sagebrush, building rubble, and a lot of ferrous debris.

I moved back to Utah in '81 and in July of '83, Tesoro introduced their Inca which was a silent-search motion-based detector that handled Iron Nails quite well, and it was a slow-motion design with a quick-response / fast-recovery circuitry design that would allow me to hunt the brushier and trashier and more confined areas better. Two things occurred at that point in time:

1.. I bought an Inca and switched my dealership to selling only Tesoro's, and

2.. I started working 'Twin Flats' and other old townsites, stage stops and all sorts of old-use places a lot !! I devoted 85% to 90% of all my detecting time to Relic Hunting those of out-of-the-way places, AND I also swapped the 8" coil from the Inca to the 7" coil off the Mayan and used a 7" Concentric coil exclusively. On that Inca and on all the other Tesoro models I happened to like as the years passed by .... until they brought out the thin-profile 6" Concentric coil. I have used that 6" coil size almost exclusively on all my Tesoro's, keeping one mounted on my Bandido II µMAX (pronounced microMAX) and the same size on my Silver Sabre µMAX.

When I did some urban Coin Hunting I did very well and found a lot of coins. But from just that one all-time favorite ghost town, I filled four binders with 2x2 carded coins, and had a small pile left to clean and card. Hundreds of coins from just that one ghosted old townsite that has been void of any structures since about 1951-'52. But it was a very popular and high-use location, and I was often asked at club meetings how I found so much. I went to two club meetings a month during that time and displayed a lot of my finds in the different Find-of-the-Month categories.

My answer for my success? First, it is 'location.' You have to search a high-potential 'location.'

Second, I pointed out that I use a slow-motion detector with a quick-response and fast-recovery design that handles Iron Nails well.

Third, I use the least amount of Discrimination I can tolerate, and that would be to just barley reject Iron Nails, or with some modern detectors I just barely accept Iron Nails, but rely on a multi-tone audio to classify the low-conductive Iron trash.

Fourth, I use a smaller-size search coil. On my Tesoro's I keep the 6" Concentric mounted full-time. On a Nokta FORS CoRe I like the small 4.7X5.2 'OOR' DD, and on the FORS Relic I keep the 5" DD mounted. Those all handle the nasty Iron Nails and other dense debris the best in my Detector Outfit, and if it is less challenging with a modest amount of Iron, I use the White's MX-7 w/6½" Concentric coil, or Nokta / Makro Simplex + w/5X9½ DD or even the new Garrett Apex with the only coil they have today, and that is the 6X11 DD.

But back then it was a Tesoro with a 7" Concentric until the 6" came out.

Fifth, I would work, and continue to do the same today, in a slow-and-methodical manner. Typically, my side-to-side sweep is from 20" in tighter brush and trash, to perhaps 30" or out to maybe 36" side-to-side. I also try to sweep in a straight line and not arc the coil, keeping the coil at a uniform coil-to-ground relationship.

Six, I like to 'waltz' when I am hunting a very brushy or trashy site. What do I mean by 'waltz?' Well, if you are musically inclined a waltz is 3/4 time. You'd count One-Two-Three as you move from side to side while dancing. And that's what I try to do as I work my smaller-size coil in and around and through the debris, brush and building rubble. I just don't count out loud.smiling smiley Remember, I use a shorter side-to-side sweep and I am working slowly-and-methodically, so I sweep from left-to-right, repeat that same path on the right-to-left sweep, and just to be sure I do it again going from left-to-right. That way I don't miss a target that might have only produced a one-way response.

Then I advance the coil about the diameter of a dime or penny, and a small US 1¢ coin measures ¾" across. So watching me detect is almost like watching a painter making short stokes, and repeating back-and-forth as if evenly spreading the paint to uniformly cover an area, then slowly continuing on.

It's been easier to just verbally explain what I do than it was to type it out, but it has been that slow-and-methodical process with double and triple sweeps that has benefitted me well through the years, and that is what lead to the success I had putting in ample time, very often, in 'Twin Flats.'


Quote
Senior Deacon
Granted most of my silver coins are found three to five inches yet I hear that people finding coins much deeper. Some claim that 8 to 12 inches are possible with this detector. Our ground here in this part of Iowa is almost mineral ( iron ) free, rich loam that is a foot thick not very packed and easy to dig in even in the dead of summer when its dry.
I have found deeply-positioned coins, even back to 1968, but it doesn't occur all that often, and I kind of thing a lot of the coin-depth guesses are like fish stories and how big they were. I have hunted with a couple of friends who used to claim their Minelab Explorer II's w/10" or 11" Pro coils were finding deep coins in the 9" to 12" range, so I hunted with the. We'd compare some signals, but when they found some deeper coins I wanted to check their signal, then watch the recoveries. What they thought was 9" to 12" turned out to be coins in the 5" to 9" range using honest observed measurements.

Besides, the only way to find any deeper coins, if they are there, in a trashy environment is to recover all the trash to eliminate the good-target masking. That's also best accomplished by using a smaller-size search coil. I keep a smaller-size coil on most of my detectors, and a mid-size coil on the rest except only one currently has a larger-size, standard, round-shaped 11" DD coil mounted for dedicated open-area searches.


Quote
Senior Deacon
Question how do I get more depth out of this detector? What sounds should I be listening closer for? Maybe I am asking to much out of this old analog detector? Any help or tips will be appreciated.

Senior Deacon
Few places truly have 'deep' coins, and since the bulk of the places that see a lot of human activity are the ones that see the most coin loss, as well as the most discarded trash, a smaller-size coil is going to provide ample in-the-fild performance, especially since most lost coins are not going to be all that deep.

As for hunting a wide-open area such as the middle of an old grassy park, and if using a White's detector, here's my approach. With my XLT I will opt for a larger search coil, but for that I go to one of the round 8" Concentric coils. I prefer them to the 950 coil because I get almost the same in-the-field performance, but they also are better balanced and that make long hunt-times more comfortable. Detecting should be 'fun' and that includes hunting without fatigue so a well-balanced detector coil combination comes into play.

The 11" round coil I use is standard on my Nokta / Makro Simplex + and that balances well. I also have a 9X12 DD with an open-frame I cn swap for the 5X8 DD on my Minelab Vanquish 540 and it, also, is a very comfortable set-up for me to use. At 71 with a bad knee, terribly bad back, and a number of other health limitation, forcing me to use a cane since just before I turned 44, I like to have my outfit 'comfortable' and I have been able to put in a solid 2 hours of hunting with the V-540 and 9X12 DD coil.

I used the larger-size coils they had from White's and after-market on the 5900 Di Pro SL, XL Pro and XLT and I didn't find them nearly as comfortable. The 12" Detech worked, but was fatiguing and I did just fine with the 8" Concentric coil by comparison on those heavier detector models.

The other help I can share is to remember those are what we used to describe as "4-Filter' detectors and that simply meant that, by design, they required a sufficiently faster sweep speed in order to work well. In their latter variations, with the 5900 Di Pro and 6000 Di Pro SL that used the last circuitry boar revision, labeled 'CB', they did manage to slow the required sweep speed to an almost moderate sweep-rate, but the earlier versions weren't quite there yet.

I am an analog circuitry fan .... for those models that worked well with the earlier designs. I do like some of the latter models we have enjoyed this past 20 yers and they have progressed to more digitally-designed circuitry or more analog/digital blended circuitry. Not all of them are terrific, but some of them are very impressive. Still, even with the modern detectors I own and use, the coin depths haven't changed and most of what is still out there of the older-dated coins, are still in that surface to 5" depth range and yet the amount of discarded trash has increased. Therefore, all the more reason to use a smaller-size coil. Work it slowly-and-methodically, and to use a detector that handles those conditions with a quick-response and fast-recovery circuitry design.

Okay, I'll quit. I hope some of this might have been useful to you or other readers, and again, 'Welcome to the AHRPS Forums.

Monte

"Your EYES ... the only 100% accurate form of Discrimination!"

Stinkwater Wells Trading Post
Metal Detector Evaluations and Product Reviews
monte@ahrps.org ... or ... monte@stinkwaterwells.com
503-481-8147
Detectors: Fisher F5; Garrett Apex; Minelab Vanquish 540; Nokta / Makro FORS CoRe, FORS Relic & Simplex +;
Teknetics T2+; Tesoro Bandido II µMAX & Silver Sabre µMAX; White's XLT
Pinpointers: Pulse-Dive -- ProPointer AT .. Headphones: 'Hornet' & 'Wasp' -- MS-3 Z-Lynk -- ML-80 -- N/M Green Edition
Note: Detectors are listed alphabetically by Brand. Models are chosen based on search site conditions.
*** All working well today to make memories for tomorrow. ***




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/15/2020 05:32AM by Monte.
Subject Author Views Posted

The deep ones

Senior Deacon 86 September 14, 2020 07:31PM

Re: The deep ones

NWCindy 32 September 30, 2020 11:44AM

Some thoughts and history of Finding some Deep Coins.

Monte 85 September 15, 2020 05:31AM

Re: Some thoughts and history of Finding some Deep Coins.

Senior Deacon 30 September 21, 2020 07:26AM

Re: Some thoughts and history of Finding some Deep Coins.

WM6 52 September 15, 2020 12:09PM

Re: Some thoughts and history of Finding some Deep Coins.

SvenS 39 September 21, 2020 03:27AM

One of the downfalls of increased age and decreased mobility.

Monte 34 September 21, 2020 05:53AM

WM6, it was a different era, a younger and healthier me, and our Coin Hunting likely differs from yours.

Monte 44 September 16, 2020 09:32AM

Re: WM6, it was a different era, a younger and healthier me, and our Coin Hunting likely differs from yours.

WM6 38 September 16, 2020 12:32PM

Re: The deep ones

zincoln 62 September 14, 2020 11:03PM

Re: The deep ones...how to get the best out of your 5900White's Electronics

Hombre 63 September 15, 2020 07:36AM

The deep ones...

UtahRich 41 September 15, 2020 12:14PM

Hombre, that was very good help, but a different detector.

Monte 48 September 15, 2020 08:41AM

Re: Hombre, that was very good help, but a different detector. I'm only familiar with my version of the 5900

Hombre 42 September 15, 2020 09:31AM

A nice selection of White's models.thumbs up .. Too bad they went belly-up.sad smiley

Monte 56 September 15, 2020 11:15AM

Re: The deep ones...how to get the best out of your 5900White's Electronics

zincoln 48 September 15, 2020 08:38AM



Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

Online Users

Guests: 72
Record Number of Users: 13 on January 18, 2018
Record Number of Guests: 356 on August 30, 2020